Time to face the stark reality...

[Maxiedge]

There's an air of inevitability whenever we attack that we won't score especially if there's nice build up play. We can feel it as fans and I'm sure the players do too. There's a dark cloud hanging over the team which is more to do with football and tactics and ability etc....there's a lack of positive attitude and belief.

[red g]

There's an air of inevitability whenever we attack that we won't score especially if there's nice build up play. We can feel it as fans and I'm sure the players do too. There's a dark cloud hanging over the team which is more to do with football and tactics and ability etc....there's a lack of positive attitude and belief.

and an air of inevitebilaty when the oppsition attack they will score.

Not a good mix

[Maxiedge]

yeah yeah very true. That as well.

[vlahka]

After seeing the way were were playing for the first few months I told my friends back in october we would probably finish 7th. Seeing as they're UTD and Spurs supporters they keep giving me grief after each game. I dont think it sinks through their heads that I already dont expect the team to win that often.

[frank the tank]

Wigan match was pathetic performance. The response against Lille and more importantly Portsmouth in the next 2 games will let us all know if Rafa has lost the dressing room or not. If he has, then he should resign. If he hasn't, then I reckon he should just go for it - treat every game like a cup final and play attacking line-ups to win matches as opposed to setting up teams not to lose games.

If this happens, then we can still get 4th. City, Villa and Spurs all will take points off each other.

If Rafa has lost the dressing room, then the club is fcuked and could go the way of Leeds / Newcastle. Torres, Gerrard, Mascher, Reina could all be sold over the managers head and cheapo replacements drafted in which would be a nightmare. To be honest, with the exception of Reina, I wouldn't mind seeing any player sold as long as the money goes back into the transfer kitty - and that includes Torres and Stevie....


If rafa did go, and there was not champions league football next season, then we probably won't have the cash to get someone high profile like Hiddink (who can earn way more in a part-time international job) or Mourinho (who would want a HUGE kitty for new players).............

I know he hasn't managed in a good few years, but Kenny might be the guy to steady the ship. He would be popular with the fans, can motivate players no end and would probably keep Sammy Lee on the staff to keep some sort of stability. Bring back Thommo as assistant as well could turn out to be a solid enough choice.....

I know people will scream for a european great - but look at things in the clear light of day and who are we really likely to get...........Avram Grant???

[SimonNo7]

...that there is absolutely no chance that we are going to be in the Champions League next year. If we were relying on one team to slip up, then we might still have an outside chance, but once all of the games in hand are played, we will at best be in sixth and a point behind Man City and Spurs, and at worst in seventh, seven behind City, six behind Villa and four behind Spurs, and only two ahead of Birmingham and four ahead of Everton.

Even if the teams above us do drop points, it relies on us picking up maximum points on the run-in, and to be blunt last night showed us that that is never going to happen.

My best guess? We finish seventh, and aren’t in Europe at all next year unless Spurs get to the final of the FA Cup, in which case the FA Cup place goes to sixth and the League Cup place to seventh.

If that happens, I would fully expect Benitez to resign, but as has been debated at length on this site, we would struggle to replace him. The issue is then whether this team is good enough to get back in the top four and has just lost its way, or that we massively overachieved last season, and have now found our level.

My feeling is a bit of a combination of the two. Look at Everton, who man for man are far inferior to our team. Only Arteta and perhaps Jagielka would stand a chance of getting in our first choice eleven. And yet with a great manager (you may hate him but it’s true), who gets far more out of the team than the sum of its parts, they regularly overachieve.

Benitez has been a great manager, but seems to have hit a glass ceiling. His decision-making in recent months has become increasingly erratic, and many of his high-profile signings have been less than successful. Aquilani and Johnson have failed to make an impact (the latter through no fault of Benitez’s, but the former I very much lay at his door, as he signed an injured player for £20m, and the gamble backfired) and our failure to sign a proper back-up striker has been a disaster. Babel should either be played or sold, and Alonso might never have left if the Barry saga hadn’t been played out so publicly and in such an unprofessional manner.

So how do we start to get the team to achieve again? To me the answer now seems very simple, but it’s one that I wouldn’t have contemplated until very recently: Benitez has to go. And to all those who say that there isn’t anyone else and we should give him time - he has had time, and a lack of obvious alternatives is not sufficient justification to keep a man who clearly can’t take the team to the next level. I hope that he does the decent thing and falls on his sword at the end of the season, and then, regardless of any investment or ownership changes, we start with a clean slate.

By the way, if we do make Champions League and Benitez stays, feel free to remind me of this and I will willingly eat humble pie, as I'd love to be wrong about this. I just don't think that I am going to be wrong, unfortunately.

Gave up on fourth a long time ago and I can tell you it still hurts like hell thinking that way even though it was so long ago

[SimonNo7]

we have got to start clearing the dead wood out, but we can't do anything till next season. We have Torres, Babel and Kuyt as strikers so why not use 2 of them up there rather than one. We brought in Aquilani to replace Alonso so lets use him, we have Riera, Maxi and Benayoun as wingers lets use them there.

This has gone beyond a joke now and gone on for too long now issues off field with the ownership and issues on field with players turning out rubbish performances week after week showing no fight what so ever for the red of Liverpool, the Liverbird and the millions of Liverpool fans around the world. I think Rafa could of got 11 Liverpool fans off Stanley park and they could of put a better performance than last night's diabolic display.

Has Rafa lost the dressing room? Do the players not understand what he wants? Do the players not want to play for Liverpool anymore?

Rafa may well have lost the dressing room, the way the team (and I use that term loosely) plays it comes across as though he has.

It doesn't take a lot of them to create an atmosphere, it only takes a few prima donnas to stop trying and you get what happened at the Chavs with Scolari!

[TheElephantMan]

Of course we can still finish in the top four! It's not going to be easy, but until it's mathematically impossible then we've got as good a chance as any other team fighting for a CL spot. If we manage a couple of wins against Portsmouth and United then we would be in a good position to kick on, if not then things will be difficult.

[little dave hedgehog]

Of course we can still finish in the top four! It's not going to be easy, but until it's mathematically impossible then we've got as good a chance as any other team fighting for a CL spot. If we manage a couple of wins against Portsmouth and United then we would be in a good position to kick on, if not then things will be difficult.

rubbish. we are in the weakest position of any of the 4 teams. we have a chance, but it is demonstratively a *worse* chance than the other clubs have. not equal.

[red g]

rubbish. we are in the weakest position of any of the 4 teams. we have a chance, but it is demonstratively a *worse* chance than the other clubs have. not equal.

[Scaramanga]

Try the BBC predictor and see what you get - by my reckoning its between Arse and Chelsea for the title and we get 4th:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/predictor/default.stm

[SimonNo7]

Try the BBC predictor and see what you get - by my reckoning its between Arse and Chelsea for the title and we get 4th:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...or/default.stm

I have the Chavs nicking it by a point with Manure 2nd and the Arse 3rd. We finish 6th with ****ty taking 4th and Villa 5th

[TheElephantMan]

rubbish. we are in the weakest position of any of the 4 teams. we have a chance, but it is demonstratively a *worse* chance than the other clubs have. not equal.

I hope I'm right - we have more experience under pressure than the teams around us. You don't get to the final stages of the CL or finish regularly in the top four without building resilience, I still think we have an advantage over the clubs around us. The next two games are critical.

[Taxi]

I hope I'm right - we have more experience under pressure than the teams around us. You don't get to the final stages of the CL or finish regularly in the top four without building resilience, I still think we have an advantage over the clubs around us. The next two games are critical.

We were in the fight for 4th at the start of the new year yet the likes of Everton have outscored us since then so I don't buy into this experience under pressure thing. We knew we were in a battle but still we failed to find any consistency. All it will take is another injury to Torres and we'll have no chance at all, but even with him, my moneys on Villa, Spurs and City finishing higher.

[little dave hedgehog]

I hope I'm right - we have more experience under pressure than the teams around us. You don't get to the final stages of the CL or finish regularly in the top four without building resilience, I still think we have an advantage over the clubs around us. The next two games are critical.

we have fewer points and fewer games left. an advantage is exactly what we don't have. most of the season has been played already. we're here on merit.