Lille post-mortem

[tomasjj]

Thats the biggest problem of playing him as a central midfielder imo

Hes always been susceptible to this

Lucas had to carry him defensively against Wigan.
Not good enough from Stevie that. Poor show.

[SimonNo7]

Our team has absolutely no cohesion to it whatsoever and instead of linking our defence to attack, the midfield actually seperates it. We look like three different teams rolled into one. The defenders hoof it forward because they know that any pass into lucas or masher will be given away.

or passed back to them!

[Chazza]

gerrards been **** all season and sure players go through dips in form but at the stage of his career he is at, im certain he knew that this season was probably our best chance of winning the league.

United lost ronaldo, chelsea lost the africans for the cup of nations and are a year older (which for an old side is a lot), arsenal do what they normally do and if we had kept hold of alonso and bought in glen johnson I think we would be somewhere near the top.

Gerrard is frustrated, no one can get the ball into him like alonso used to, he is isolated, torres cant get any decent balls to run onto because gerrard isnt passing to him. Our play was alonso quick pass into gerrard who either set off torres or looked to play in someone else.

We cannot get the ball to our best players from midfield because lucas or mascherano arent good enough to pick incisive passes.

Our team has absolutely no cohesion to it whatsoever and our instead of linking our defence to attack, the midfield actually seperates it. We look like three different teams rolled into one. The defenders hoof it forward because they know that any pass into lucas or masher will be given away.

This is why agger last night was hoofing it long onto kuyts head last night on every occasion. If xabi was playing that wouldnt have happened.

I cant believe that one player makes such a massive difference and it probably shouldnt come as a surprise to us because the team was built not around gerrard but alonso.

The main cog has gone and the rest just cant click into gear. People who doubt just how important alonso was to liverpool need to look at our points tally at the end of the season. We wont get within 20 of what we had last season.

I agree with you that the team worked alot better with Alonso, but I also think that teams have worked out how to play against us

Lille pushed the midfield right up against Masch and Lucas giving them no time on the ball, leaving the defence looking for long balls over the top

Torres had the 2 CB's to contend with at most times, Gerrard had dropped deeper to try and get the ball so was leaving him Isolated and coming into a congested area of the park, coupled with his ****e passing last night he was not effective

As we have no pace down the right, the outball is not there and down the left Babel didnt get in behind often.

Agreed Alonso would have been a better addition to the midfield but even if we had him teams could man mark him and undermine the game plan.

Rafa is too rigid/stubborn to change the formation and cause the opposition a different problem.

[dave edwards]

I agree with you that the team worked alot better with Alonso, but I also think that teams have worked out how to play against us

Lille pushed the midfield right up against Masch and Lucas giving them no time on the ball, leaving the defence looking for long balls over the top

Torres had the 2 CB's to contend with at most times, Gerrard had dropped deeper to try and get the ball so was leaving him Isolated and coming into a congested area of the park, coupled with his ****e passing last night he was not effective

As we have no pace down the right, the outball is not there and down the left Babel didnt get in behind often.

Agreed Alonso would have been a better addition to the midfield but even if we had him teams could man mark him and undermine the game plan.

Rafa is too rigid/stubborn to change the formation and cause the opposition a different problem.

[Taxi]

What the **** happened? I mean really, what the **** happened?

Much has been spoken of Rafa's Valencia, "The Crushing Machine". It reached almost mythical status amongst those of us who've never really taken to watching Spanish football. Those that did spoke of efficiency, hard work, intricate play and complete domination. They said his side would grind down the opposition until they literally gave up.

Last season we seemed to be approaching this level. Away at the Bernabeu we won 1-0 which prompted a bit of a backlash from the Real camp. "This is Anfield. So what" claimed RM's unofficial mouthpiece, Marca, before we promptly humilated them 4-0 at home. Four days later we took the trip to Manchester where the dreams turned into nightmares for Fergie and his disciples as we strolled on to a 4-1 victory. O'Neil's Villa were next on the hit-list and they soon found themselves back on the coach 5 goals to the worse.

That little spell of 3 games was quite possibly the greatest football I've witnessed for decades at the club. We were ****ing lethal. Nobody wanted to play us and just for a while I thought Rafa's side were playing the best football in Europe. It came when we knew exactly what we needed to do and what we needed to do was attack. The league had slipped away a little and we'd dropped a few points over the previous few games but we came out fighting like men possessed. Everything finally just clicked and even the Utd fans began to finally admit that we were the real deal.

In the space of just a a few months things nosedived. The evidence was there right from the pre season friendlies, from the visit to Espanyol's new stadium to the Anfield game against Torres's old team mates. We were playing poorly right from the start and inconsistency has plauged us ever since. Heads are dropping, players are dropping with longterm injuries and Rafa clearly seems to have run out of ideas. I see no light at the end of the tunnel and the "Crushing Machine" that finally seemed to be reality, now seems like a distant dream.

I'm crushed.

[Matt]

Good post that mate. Hope the shackles well and truly come off now.

[gentingfrmhell]

i love the name of this thread

[Lecter]

I cant believe that one player makes such a massive difference and it probably shouldnt come as a surprise to us because the team was built not around gerrard but alonso.

The main cog has gone and the rest just cant click into gear. People who doubt just how important alonso was to liverpool need to look at our points tally at the end of the season. We wont get within 20 of what we had last season.

It was exactly the same in the late 80's with Whelan

When he wasnt playing the team never performed as well

I always though Alonso was that type of player, one whose effectiveness would be realised more when he had gone

[Lecter]

Good post that mate. the wheels well and truly come off now.

[red g]

What the **** happened? I mean really, what the **** happened?

Much has been spoken of Rafa's Valencia, "The Crushing Machine". It reached almost mythical status amongst those of us who've never really taken to watching Spanish football. Those that did spoke of efficiency, hard work, intricate play and complete domination. They said his side would grind down the opposition until they literally gave up.

Last season we seemed to be approaching this level. Away at the Bernabeu we won 1-0 which prompted a bit of a backlash from the Real camp. "This is Anfield. So what" claimed RM's unofficial mouthpiece, Marca, before we promptly humilated them 4-0 at home. Four days later we took the trip to Manchester where the dreams turned into nightmares for Fergie and his disciples as we strolled on to a 4-1 victory. O'Neil's Villa were next on the hit-list and they soon found themselves back on the coach 5 goals to the worse.

That little spell of 3 games was quite possibly the greatest football I've witnessed for decades at the club. We were ****ing lethal. Nobody wanted to play us and just for a while I thought Rafa's side were playing the best football in Europe. It came when we knew exactly what we needed to do and what we needed to do was attack. The league had slipped away a little and we'd dropped a few points over the previous few games but we came out fighting like men possessed. Everything finally just clicked and even the Utd fans began to finally admit that we were the real deal.

In the space of just a a few months things nosedived. The evidence was there right from the pre season friendlies, from the visit to Espanyol's new stadium to the Anfield game against Torres's old team mates. We were playing poorly right from the start and inconsistency has plauged us ever since. Heads are dropping, players are dropping with longterm injuries and Rafa clearly seems to have run out of ideas. I see no light at the end of the tunnel and the "Crushing Machine" that finally seemed to be reality, now seems like a distant dream.

I'm crushed.

indeed the crushing machine is crushed

[Redspin]

gerrards been **** all season and sure players go through dips in form but at the stage of his career he is at, im certain he knew that this season was probably our best chance of winning the league.

United lost ronaldo, chelsea lost the africans for the cup of nations and are a year older (which for an old side is a lot), arsenal do what they normally do and if we had kept hold of alonso and bought in glen johnson I think we would be somewhere near the top.

Gerrard is frustrated, no one can get the ball into him like alonso used to, he is isolated, torres cant get any decent balls to run onto because gerrard isnt passing to him. Our play was alonso quick pass into gerrard who either set off torres or looked to play in someone else.

We cannot get the ball to our best players from midfield because lucas or mascherano arent good enough to pick incisive passes.

Our team has absolutely no cohesion to it whatsoever and our instead of linking our defence to attack, the midfield actually seperates it. We look like three different teams rolled into one. The defenders hoof it forward because they know that any pass into lucas or masher will be given away.

This is why agger last night was hoofing it long onto kuyts head last night on every occasion. If xabi was playing that wouldnt have happened.

I cant believe that one player makes such a massive difference and it probably shouldnt come as a surprise to us because the team was built not around gerrard but alonso.

The main cog has gone and the rest just cant click into gear. People who doubt just how important alonso was to liverpool need to look at our points tally at the end of the season. We wont get within 20 of what we had last season.

Nice theory, but Alonso only started fractionally more than two-thirds of our league games last season and we managed very nicely without him, not losing a single league game when he was absent. And as for Lucas and Mascherano giving the ball away - as if Alonso never did - this is completely at variance with all the stats that show them to be very high up the successful pass completion table.

If Alonso was so pivotal, how come we didn't miss him in the games he didn't play in and didn't lose any of them? His pivotal play didn't do us much good in the terrible home draws with Fulham, Stoke, West Ham and Hull, to mention just a few that spring to mind, all of which he played in

[Armchairkopite]

What the **** happened? I mean really, what the **** happened?

Much has been spoken of Rafa's Valencia, "The Crushing Machine". It reached almost mythical status amongst those of us who've never really taken to watching Spanish football. Those that did spoke of efficiency, hard work, intricate play and complete domination. They said his side would grind down the opposition until they literally gave up.

Last season we seemed to be approaching this level. Away at the Bernabeu we won 1-0 which prompted a bit of a backlash from the Real camp. "This is Anfield. So what" claimed RM's unofficial mouthpiece, Marca, before we promptly humilated them 4-0 at home. Four days later we took the trip to Manchester where the dreams turned into nightmares for Fergie and his disciples as we strolled on to a 4-1 victory. O'Neil's Villa were next on the hit-list and they soon found themselves back on the coach 5 goals to the worse.

That little spell of 3 games was quite possibly the greatest football I've witnessed for decades at the club. We were ****ing lethal. Nobody wanted to play us and just for a while I thought Rafa's side were playing the best football in Europe. It came when we knew exactly what we needed to do and what we needed to do was attack. The league had slipped away a little and we'd dropped a few points over the previous few games but we came out fighting like men possessed. Everything finally just clicked and even the Utd fans began to finally admit that we were the real deal.

In the space of just a a few months things nosedived. The evidence was there right from the pre season friendlies, from the visit to Espanyol's new stadium to the Anfield game against Torres's old team mates. We were playing poorly right from the start and inconsistency has plauged us ever since. Heads are dropping, players are dropping with longterm injuries and Rafa clearly seems to have run out of ideas. I see no light at the end of the tunnel and the "Crushing Machine" that finally seemed to be reality, now seems like a distant dream.

I'm crushed.

Rafa is also crushed, any ****ing idiot that thinks hes waiting around for a pay off is just that.

Rafa is a meticulous manager that is a born winner, he wont quit for that simple reason.

Unfortunately we are on our arses at the moment and Rafa is short of options gone is the periphiral figure of the majestic Alonso in the middle of the field to be replaced by no one quite frankly.

Carragher needs a good shaking or dropping and Gerrard needs a kick up the arse but does Rafa have the balls for the whole sale changes that are required for him to rescue his future at the club.

For me its got to be out with Kuyt and Lucas and in with Aquiliani and Babel or Maxi on the right.

Kuyt has been a passenger far too often this season I put this down to teams concentrating on our left hand side so Kuyts effectiveness is severly limited, in fact the more I think about it even Kuyts defencive duties on the right hand side have been well below par when needed.

Insua and Johnson are also weak defensively and haven't been helped by Carras poor performances and an unstable centre half pairing.

Insua doesn't know who will be playing in front of him form one game to the next, a player with a left foot would be a good start.

So much wrong its just not like Rafa to ring the changes that are required but for me I would see the season out with the formation below and que sara sara.

=============Reina============
Johnson==Kyriakos==Agger==Insua
Maxi===Aquiliani===Mascherano=Reira
=========Gerrard==============
============Torres============

Benni-Lucas-Carra-Babel-Pacheco-Kuyt

[Armchairkopite]

Lucas had to carry him defensively against Wigan.
Not good enough from Stevie that. Poor show.

Good call.

[el matador]

Nice theory, but Alonso only started fractionally more than two-thirds of our league games last season and we managed very nicely without him, not losing a single league game when he was absent. And as for Lucas and Mascherano giving the ball away - as if Alonso never did - this is completely at variance with all the stats that show them to be very high up the successful pass completion table.

If Alonso was so pivotal, how come we didn't miss him in the games he didn't play in and didn't lose any of them? His pivotal play didn't do us much good in the terrible home draws with Fulham, Stoke, West Ham and Hull, to mention just a few that spring to mind, all of which he played in

we have virtually the same side as last year.

There's no need to argue with me because wait till the end of the season and see the difference in our points tally.

Theonly significant change has been lucas for alonso, and if you are correct then alonso's loss wont be huge. If i am correct, we will be at least 20 points behind last years tally.

Dont forget the only real change was alonso for lucas.

[red g]

we have virtually the same side as last year.

There's no need to argue with me because wait till the end of the season and see the difference in our points tally.

Theonly significant change has been lucas for alonso, and if you are correct then alonso's loss wont be huge. If i am correct, we will be at least 20 points behind last years tally.

Dont forget the only real change was alonso for lucas.

and arbeloa gone
and Insua playing Left back constantly
and Torres injuries
and Gerrard injuries
and Centre back Injuries early season
and Hyppia gone
and Keane/Vronin gone ( Maybe that improves our points tally )
and reira injured most of season

..........