Lille post-mortem

[Redspin]

over the last two seasons he's been one of the worlds best players and since alonso's departure he just cant be bothered.

He knows as the rest of us do that teams will mark him and torres tightly and that he is expected to perform miracles week in week out because there is no one else in the team capable of doing anything remotely similar.

Sorry mate, Gerrards not the problem. You need to take a closer look at the manager.

But Alonso only started 27 of our 38 league games last season and we had some great performances when he was out of the team - Man U away for one - and I didn't see Gerrard sulking/playing crap in those games. So the idea that the opposition are marking him and Torres more tightly than in those 11 Alonso-free games doesn't hold up. In fact we didn't lose any league games without Alonso last season, so why if Gerrard played well then would he decide he can't be bothered without Alonso now? Doesn't make any sense at all.

Gerrard's playing crap for possibly a number of reasons - and he hasn't played well in any game - but to link it with Alonso's departure flies in the face of the evidence when he played with and without Alonso last season

Torres has just come back from a long injury so he's entitled to be rusty. Gerrard, on the other hand - and he stated in as many words on TV a few weeks ago that he's not carrying a groin injury - has no such excuse

[Rich]

What we need against Pompey is a good old fashioned team huddle to get the crowd on side from the off.

They've been a cuddling for a while now to little effect.

[Lecter]

**** Lucas off, get Gerrard back in a position where he knows well and can do a decent job for us. I'm sick to the ****ing death of this negative bull**** of Lucas and Mascherano in midfield, doesn't work. Even with wingers there is no cohesion in midfield it's like our game plan is lob it up to Torres let him either turn a defender or hold up play and then bring in kuyt, babel or stevie.

Back to 4-4-2, midfielders who can control, pass, and play team mates into space. two forwards working together, and 2 widemen hugging the touchline. I'm fed up of these draws and losses from negative tactics and lack of passion. Rafa has brought us some brilliant times that have shaped me as a person more than anything else in life but enough is enough. He's played his part at Liverpool making us a top team again now we need someone else with fresh and more accurate ways of taking us to winning the league.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

Gerrard is no longer a central midfielder imo

Its also debateable whether he can pass a ball on recent form

[Kinell]

Gerrard is no longer a central midfielder imo

Its also debateable whether he can pass a ball on recent form

Then what is he... quite obviously his position behind Torres in a 4-5-1 is useless.

He's still the best passer of a ball in the squad. You get him back in Lucas' position and we'll see the diagonal ball to 'wide men' again and a lot more time in possession in the middle and some decent build up play.

[Reece]

Then what is he... quite obviously his position behind Torres in a 4-5-1 is useless.

Well it was pretty darn good last season. And he was also spectacularly **** when played in CM against Wigan on Monday.

[Matt]

They've been a cuddling for a while now to little effect.

I thought Carragher led the cuddling when SG was injured but it stopped when he came back?

[Kinell]

Well it was pretty darn good last season. And he was also spectacularly **** when played in CM against Wigan on Monday.

When there is creativity behind him of course it worked. But we have a defensive minded dysfunctional midfield and it all points to Rafa's mentality for the team and the players we have in those positions.

Gerrard's obviously out of form, his fitness is also in question. Someone in a previous post or another thread questioning when was the last time he sprinted after a ball which is a good observation. There was a flash or two of the real Stevie last night but with the players behind him and beside him it can't and won't work.

The system isn't working with the players Rafa picks, Gerrard goes walkabout, Torres is isolated and frustrated upfront, Kuyt thinks he should be mr everywhere, Babel loses the ball nearly everytime he gets it, Lucas is clumsy, Masch is left to be a playmaker which doesn't work. Nothing is working for us under the system Rafa wants us to play.

[Lecter]

Then what is he... quite obviously his position behind Torres in a 4-5-1 is useless.

He's still the best passer of a ball in the squad. You get him back in Lucas' position and we'll see the diagonal ball to 'wide men' again and a lot more time in possession in the middle and some decent build up play.

He really turned it on in central midfield against Wigan didnt he

Struggled to count the diagonal balls and possession time we had when he was there

Our possession improved when Gerrard moved behind Torres and the "inept/injury prone" Aquilani came on

[Lecter]

Gerrard goes walkabout.

Thats the biggest problem of playing him as a central midfielder imo

Hes always been susceptible to this

[Kinell]

He really turned it on in central midfield against Wigan didnt he

Struggled to count the diagonal balls and possession time we had when he was there

Our possession improved when Gerrard moved behind Torres and the "inept/injury prone" Aquilani came on

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I actually missed the Wigan game beacuse i had a lecture but that's partly my point, the role behind Torres doesn't work unlesss there is someone behind him in midfield willing to be creative, spray the ball around and make space for Gerrard as defences are stretched.

[Kinell]

Thats the biggest problem of playing him as a central midfielder imo

Hes always been susceptible to this

So for the next game, what would you recommend to get the best of Gerrard?

[Lecter]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I actually missed the Wigan game beacuse i had a lecture but that's partly my point, the role behind Torres doesn't work unlesss there is someone behind him in midfield willing to be creative, spray the ball around and make space for Gerrard as defences are stretched.

Neither does playing him in midfield he was bossed by a 19 year old (McCarthy)

He vacates the central space far too often, he has lapses in concentration when he loses his runners

I could go on and on but Gerrard needs to be used in a position where he is free to exercise his skill without responsibility (you dont get that in central midfield)

I actually think his biggest problem at the minute is fitness, a fully fit Gerrard creates space himself because hes so quick and powerful

[Lecter]

So for the next game, what would you recommend to get the best of Gerrard?

If you listen to some people on this thread it appears to be sacking the manager...

Personally I dont think you will see any improvement until he gets his injury sorted

IMO it doesnt involve a change of position for him because as Reece has said he was fecking ****e against Wigan

[SimonNo7]

Then what is he... quite obviously his position behind Torres in a 4-5-1 is useless.

He's still the best passer of a ball in the squad. You get him back in Lucas' position and we'll see the diagonal ball to 'wide men' again and a lot more time in possession in the middle and some decent build up play.

I'd play him on the right!

[el matador]

If you listen to some people on this thread it appears to be sacking the manager...

Personally I dont think you will see any improvement until he gets his injury sorted

IMO it doesnt involve a change of position for him because as Reece has said he was fecking ****e against Wigan

gerrards been **** all season and sure players go through dips in form but at the stage of his career he is at, im certain he knew that this season was probably our best chance of winning the league.

United lost ronaldo, chelsea lost the africans for the cup of nations and are a year older (which for an old side is a lot), arsenal do what they normally do and if we had kept hold of alonso and bought in glen johnson I think we would be somewhere near the top.

Gerrard is frustrated, no one can get the ball into him like alonso used to, he is isolated, torres cant get any decent balls to run onto because gerrard isnt passing to him. Our play was alonso quick pass into gerrard who either set off torres or looked to play in someone else.

We cannot get the ball to our best players from midfield because lucas or mascherano arent good enough to pick incisive passes.

Our team has absolutely no cohesion to it whatsoever and our instead of linking our defence to attack, the midfield actually seperates it. We look like three different teams rolled into one. The defenders hoof it forward because they know that any pass into lucas or masher will be given away.

This is why agger last night was hoofing it long onto kuyts head last night on every occasion. If xabi was playing that wouldnt have happened.

I cant believe that one player makes such a massive difference and it probably shouldnt come as a surprise to us because the team was built not around gerrard but alonso.

The main cog has gone and the rest just cant click into gear. People who doubt just how important alonso was to liverpool need to look at our points tally at the end of the season. We wont get within 20 of what we had last season.