Does Rafa deserve one last throw of the dice?

[dom9]

whether Rafa would have made that final step i have my reservations, but he had no chance once the yanks took over very different to GH.

I think there are things that happened in the summer we may never find out about till Rafa's biography but something went on and it stinks

You think it would have been different under Moores and Parry?

I'd say yes. Torres wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't have got near second place last season.

That said, Rafa has turned a winning team into a losing team this season. You can't pin that on Alonso leaving, nor the owners.

I'm not defending the owners, I just don't get your point.

[red g]

You think it would have been different under Moores and Parry?

I'd say yes. Torres wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't have got near second place last season.

That said, Rafa has turned a winning team into a losing team this season. You can't pin that on Alonso leaving, nor the owners.

I'm not defending the owners, I just don't get your point.

no, but my point is that this pre-season when Alonso left the rumour was we had 20m+ from sales and we were bringing in a striker, that money evaporated.

Did that cause major ripples thoroughout the club, i dont know? but the fact we couldnt bring in another attacker of signficant quality or defensive back up really ****ed us this year. Aquiliani we got on the cheap and Johnsn part of a deal.

I am massively on the fence here.......as i said i blame the owners for creating the mess and maybe just maybe with that extra investment in the summer this year season would have been oh so different.

they say class is permanent, form is temporary.......does that go for managers to?

I think it probably does but Rafa has shown he cannot turn this round, he cannot motivate players, his ultra defensive approach just isnt working and I fear going into next season would be exactly the same as this one under rafa

[Armchairkopite]

Morning mate

No, he should leave as soon as possible now. We are now in a situation where our qualication for 4th place depends on other teams slipping up.

as good as Rafa has made Liverpool ie end of last season, Liverpool have also been bad(all of this season).

With no real reasons to explain this remarkable reverse and incosistency you cannot possibly let the man have one more chance.

Heres a couple, Torres and Gerrard have been hardly 100% fit for the whole Season, we lost 2 key players in the Summer and our new midfield general has taken longer to get into the team then was anticipated for various reasons.

His record is patchy to say the least based on the resources he has had at his disposal.

How many youth players have come through that are quality and that you think will settle into the long term first team picture?

This is the biggest load of bull that does the rounds. Our youth system was in **** before he arrived so he had to revamp, over the last couple od seasons we have seen Spearing, Darby, Kelly, Plessis, Insua and Ngog come into the first team, who do you think Rafa should have played from the youth system thats gone on to prove him wrong?? How many young players can a team have? Insua, Ngog, Lucas & Babel are all young players. Even Skrtle and Agger are relatively young for centre backs at a top club.
What has he won other than what was won with Houlliers team and Xabi Alonso / garcia?
Why did he sell Xabi Alonso?

Why did he buy so much rubbish?

Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeola, Skrtle, Agger, Reina, Johnson, Kyriakos, Ngog, Benni, Reira..........There isn't too much rubbish there, lets be honest the good out weigh the bad by quite a bit.
Why cannot he keep his mouth shut when he should?

Come on managers are at this all the time in the modern game in fairness.
The guy is clearly very talented but he is not the man to take Liverpool forward.

He gave us one great night, but didnt deliver what we all wanted the most.

Personally I am gutted for him, as he is a great manager I think, but he has too many flaws.

His tenure should be ended asap now.

Do you not feel that the attitude of the players is contributing to our results, lets be honest here the team that lined up against Wigan and Lille where more then capable. Does Rafa need to throw a tea cup to get the best out of World class players??

[red g]

Morning mate



Do you not feel that the attitude of the players is contributing to our results, lets be honest here the team that lined up against Wigan and Lille where more then capable. Does Rafa need to throw a tea cup to get the best out of World class players??

good moaning


i think the attitude of the players massively contributes to our results, defo Stevie G's, BUT regardless to what fredo says its Rafa's job to motivate them and it aint working, quite the opposite he seems to be demotivating them! as I said earlier.....2 half time team talks in the last 2 games.....and we come out worse after half time.

the 15 minutes in Istanbul seems so so so far away.

[Armchairkopite]

no, but my point is that this pre-season when Alonso left the rumour was we had 20m+ from sales and we were bringing in a striker, that money evaporated.

Did that cause major ripples thoroughout the club, i dont know? but the fact we couldnt bring in another attacker of signficant quality or defensive back up really ****ed us this year. Aquiliani we got on the cheap and Johnsn part of a deal.

I am massively on the fence here.......as i said i blame the owners for creating the mess and maybe just maybe with that extra investment in the summer this year season would have been oh so different.

they say class is permanent, form is temporary.......does that go for managers to?

I think it probably does but Rafa has shown he cannot turn this round, he cannot motivate players, his ultra defensive approach just isn't working and I fear going into next season would be exactly the same as this one under Rafa

Morning mate.

I think a lot of us are on the fence here that's why we need to debate the best way forward for the club

On your first point, its yet another reason why Rafa should maybe given a bit more consideration. If Torres and Gerrard etc. where promised a big name signing in the summer that didn't arrive I would say that they would be fairly pissed off.
Case in point was Torres' interview last week when he said he would stay IF the club was progressing. This stood out for me as a warning to the owners either invest or I'm off.

As for Rafas ultra defensive approach well i think that comes down to us being completely over stretched earlier in the season when Carras form hit an all time low. Rafa reorganized the team to make us more compact and it hasn't been pretty since.

Without replacements for Torres and Gerrard it was always going to be tough, the quality of the two is such that its inevitable that we will struggle in the final third. Then the team becomes defensive and boring because of a lack of options.

The toughest part of the team to get going is the attacking unit, there where signs in the first half against lille that we where progressing but then we faded in the second.
Could this be down to a lack of fitness form Torres & Gerrard to a lesser extent, its certainly plausible.

[Armchairkopite]

good moaning


i think the attitude of the players massively contributes to our results, defo Stevie G's, BUT regardless to what fredo says its Rafa's job to motivate them and it aint working, quite the opposite he seems to be demotivating them! as I said earlier.....2 half time team talks in the last 2 games.....and we come out worse after half time.
the 15 minutes in Istanbul seems so so so far away.

Could it be anything to do with lack of fitness from Torres and Gerrard, in fairness they have missed a shed load of games this season.

[red g]

Morning mate.

I think a lot of us are on the fence here that's why we need to debate the best way forward for the club

On your first point, its yet another reason why Rafa should maybe given a bit more consideration. If Torres and Gerrard etc. where promised a big name signing in the summer that didn't arrive I would say that they would be fairly pissed off.
Case in point was Torres' interview last week when he said he would stay IF the club was progressing. This stood out for me as a warning to the owners either invest or I'm off.

As for Rafas ultra defensive approach well i think that comes down to us being completely over stretched earlier in the season when Carras form hit an all time low. Rafa reorganized the team to make us more compact and it hasn't been pretty since.

Without replacements for Torres and Gerrard it was always going to be tough, the quality of the two is such that its inevitable that we will struggle in the final third. Then the team becomes defensive and boring because of a lack of options.

The toughest part of the team to get going is the attacking unit, there where signs in the first half against lille that we where progressing but then we faded in the second.
Could this be down to a lack of fitness form Torres & Gerrard to a lesser extent, its certainly plausible.

i do believe Rafa has been well and truly ****ed over by the club and this batten down the hatched mentality has failed miserably.

But that table craig posted the other day 15 losses this year is totally unacceptable for Liverpool football club.....no matter what ahs happened that is ridiculous!!

Gerrard is having the worse season of his life, if its fown to his injury why doesnt he come out and say so?

This season is probably making me gloss over all the bad points and look at all the negatives of Rafa's tenure but the fact is season on season we have complained of going away to teams and playing negatively sitting back and nicking wins.

Rafa's mentality and tactical astuteness would work superbly on a lower league team, where he could nulify opposition and sneak a win. BUT we have a better team than most and just wish he would send us out believing in ourseelves, let us do our own thing and not worry as much about the opposition, I suppose thats why i think the best way forward is a new man

[Gray]

BBC Gossip is reporting Alex Mcleish is in with a shot. Good grief no

[red g]

Could it be anything to do with lack of fitness from Torres and Gerrard, in fairness they have missed a shed load of games this season.

they are only 2 of 11 players admittedly the best 2, but it seems more than fitness to be honest, specially with gerrard

and as i aluded to in previous post, if it was fitness why doesnt Gerrard come out and say something?

[Armchairkopite]

:Gerrard is having the worse season of his life, if its fown to his injury why doesnt he come out and say so?

Maybe he will at the end of the Season.

This season is probably making me gloss over all the bad points and look at all the negatives of Rafa's tenure but the fact is season on season we have complained of going away to teams and playing negatively sitting back and nicking wins.

We had a fantastic away record last Season, that was a good win we nicked at OT.

Rafa's mentality and tactical astuteness would work superbly on a lower league team, where he could nulify opposition and sneak a win. BUT we have a better team than most and just wish he would send us out believing in ourseelves, let us do our own thing and not worry as much about the opposition, I suppose thats why i think the best way forward is a new man

Hes been a genius away to the top sides in Europe, Turin, The Bernabeu, the Nou Camp, we ended the Chavs record undefeated streak in Stamford Bridge.

[Armchairkopite]

they are only 2 of 11 players admittedly the best 2, but it seems more than fitness to be honest, specially with gerrard

and as i aluded to in previous post, if it was fitness why doesnt Gerrard come out and say something?

Take Rooney and Berbatov out of the Scums team for the same period of time.

Take Dog Breath and Essien out of the the Chavs.

Both sides have far more resources then our club for a whole list of reasons but the bottom line is these tweo clubs would stuggle if they had to do without these players for the same period that we have gone without Torres and Gerrard.

[red g]

Take Rooney and Berbatov out of the Scums team for the same period of time.

Take Dog Breath and Essien out of the the Chavs.

Both sides have far more resources then our club for a whole list of reasons but the bottom line is these tweo clubs would stuggle if they had to do without these players for the same period that we have gone without Torres and Gerrard.

i agree with scum, think chelsea would cope though.....

[red g]

Hes been a genius away to the top sides in Europe, Turin, The Bernabeu, the Nou Camp, we ended the Chavs record undefeated streak in Stamford Bridge.

one swallow doesnt make a summer refarding OT, but your right he has and it has worked an absolute treat but thats my point..against better teams, agianst the odds he has done the business, but then he has used the same mentality against the portsmouth, wigans, west hams of this world....when we should just go out and destroy them playing our own game

[Armchairkopite]

one swallow doesnt make a summer refarding OT, but your right he has and it has worked an absolute treat but thats my point..against better teams, agianst the odds he has done the business, but then he has used the same mentality against the portsmouth, wigans, west hams of this world....when we should just go out and destroy them playing our own game

Ah, ok, I misunderstood you.

I agree with you there to an extent but I do felt that Rafa has got a rough ride based on previous offences.

The season before last and the beginning of last season where too defensive against the smaller/mid table clubs but in fairness he changed our style and rectified that problem albeit too late.

This Season he has been unfortunate because of our defensive frailties earlier in the Season Rafa reverted back to the old trusted defensive formula in order to build up confidence at the back but unfortunately injuries to two key attackers means we have been stuck in that gear since.

To prove my point you just need to look at the starting line up away to Wigan, proof that Rafa knows he needs to go for it more away against weaker sides, unfortunately we just never got started.

[Armchairkopite]

one swallow doesnt make a summer refarding OT, but your right he has and it has worked an absolute treat but thats my point..against better teams, agianst the odds he has done the business, but then he has used the same mentality against the portsmouth, wigans, west hams of this world....when we should just go out and destroy them playing our own game

Come on now there was more then one swallow last season, i just picked the juiciest one.