Does Rafa deserve one last throw of the dice?

[Montana]

All season I've said yes he deserves another season even if we don't finish 4th.

However the performances and the lack of fight, lack of motivation within the team especially away from home makes me think he has lost or is losing the dressing room. When that happens the manager always has to go.

[BubbaZanetti]

The players don't want to play for him anymore. That much is obvious.

I can't see how he can be given another year.

Which players are making it obvious they don't want to play for Rafa?

[fowlen]

Not a chance.
He has to go.
Not only are the performances dull and boring, but we are so predictable, and one dimensional.
If Rafa stays we'll still be defensive and predictable and easy for opponents to work out. He is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes as is perfectly demonstrated by his continued selection of Kuyt, Lucas, etc.
If he was trying to change things and had given some of the up and coming youngsters like Pacheco more of a chance then perhaps give him a try, but he is bland as a piece of tofu!

[Armchairkopite]

The players don't want to play for him anymore. That much is obvious.

I can't see how he can be given another year.

Can that be said of all the players?

It would seem Mascherano, Reina, Insua, Agger, Skrtle, Carragher, Lucas I could go on, are willing to give 100%

All season I've said yes he deserves another season even if we don't finish 4th.

However the performances and the lack of fight, lack of motivation within the team especially away from home makes me think he has lost or is losing the dressing room. When that happens the manager always has to go.

Can player power win the day or should we allow Rafa the chance to bin the bottlers??

It seems to me that some of our bigger players threw their toys out of the pram when they realised we would't be challenging for the title.

Is that attitute good enough for this club?

[Le Chef]

Go, go, go go






but then............

[bertie]

Really like the guy, but IMHO, no.

He has demonstrated to me that he cannot get the team out of a slump in a reasonable amount of time. If we'd played better since the New Year then I'd have said yes, but my opinion is that he appears to have run out of ideas and is not able to get the best out of the players.

Time to start over.

My sentiments exactly. I've been in the RCDNW camp for 5 years now and up to 2 months ago was still standing up for him. I love the guy, I know he loves the club but enough is enough. He simply HAS to go. Wigan was the worst i've felt as a LFC fan since the Souness days. I'd love Jose but can't see him coming. Rijkaard is the #1 then.

Now for the really controversial ........ I'd have Stevie G out the door this summer as well. He's been nothing short of a disgrace this season & tbh I've grown so tired of his sulking that I'm prepared to commit this sacrilage! I know the blokes a legend and has saved us '00s of times in the past but every story comes to and end and I feel the team have become way too dependent on him that when he's not up for it it affects the rest of the team. He deserves a new start and I wouldn't begrudge him the chance of success elsewhere.

[Armchairkopite]

Not a chance.
He has to go.
Not only are the performances dull and boring, but we are so predictable, and one dimensional.
If Rafa stays we'll still be defensive and predictable and easy for opponents to work out. He is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes as is perfectly demonstrated by his continued selection of Kuyt, Lucas, etc.
If he was trying to change things and had given some of the up and coming youngsters like Pacheco more of a chance then perhaps give him a try, but he is bland as a piece of tofu!

But we where not playing like that last season, given Rafas small squad I think this has limited how he would like maybe to change things, should we give him the benefit of the doubt?

Who would you play out on the right instead of Kuyt or in the middle instead of Lucas?

Dont get me wrong I am not trying to change your mind but when you get down to it he is working with a limited squad, I think that is fair enough to say.

[Gerrard]

i don't know

[BigChief]

We should have won the league by 20 points in March 2009. The fact we didn't at all that season had both my eye brows cocked in amazement. That was when I decided to give him one more chance, i.e. this season...to show us he has a plan B (forget a plan C, D, etc).

He's quite clearly shown he hasn't, injuries are no excuse. Love the guy, but no.

[einar]

My sentiments exactly. I've been in the RCDNW camp for 5 years now and up to 2 months ago was still standing up for him. I love the guy, I know he loves the club but enough is enough. He simply HAS to go. Wigan was the worst i've felt as a LFC fan since the Souness days. I'd love Jose but can't see him coming. Rijkaard is the #1 then.

Now for the really controversial ........ I'd have Stevie G out the door this summer as well. He's been nothing short of a disgrace this season & tbh I've grown so tired of his sulking that I'm prepared to commit this sacrilage! I know the blokes a legend and has saved us '00s of times in the past but every story comes to and end and I feel the team have become way too dependent on him that when he's not up for it it affects the rest of the team. He deserves a new start and I wouldn't begrudge him the chance of success elsewhere.

I agree with you on selling Steve. And if that was done I have a feeling that would be most of Rafas problems out with him. I think it would give Rafa all the power he should have and we would see a better team next season.

Letting both of them go would be foolish IMO.

[Armchairkopite]

My sentiments exactly. I've been in the RCDNW camp for 5 years now and up to 2 months ago was still standing up for him. I love the guy, I know he loves the club but enough is enough. He simply HAS to go. Wigan was the worst i've felt as a LFC fan since the Souness days. I'd love Jose but can't see him coming. Rijkaard is the #1 then.

Now for the really controversial ........ I'd have Stevie G out the door this summer as well. He's been nothing short of a disgrace this season & tbh I've grown so tired of his sulking that I'm prepared to commit this sacrilage! I know the blokes a legend and has saved us '00s of times in the past but every story comes to and end and I feel the team have become way too dependent on him that when he's not up for it it affects the rest of the team. He deserves a new start and I wouldn't begrudge him the chance of success elsewhere.

I understand your frustration 100% but he has proven that he can get us playing fantastic football.

Shouldn't we allow him one bad season or are we as bad as the Chavs.

Look at Wenger last season for instance, at times Arsenal looked completely clueless.

[Armchairkopite]

I agree with you on selling Steve. And if that was done I have a feeling that would be most of Rafas problems out with him. I think it would give Rafa all the power he should have and we would see a better team next season.

Letting both of them go would be foolish IMO.

I agree completely, with Gerrard gone Rafa would have total control and 30 odd million to spend.

That would be interesting.

[BigChief]

I understand your frustration 100% but he has proven that he can get us playing fantastic football.

Shouldn't we allow him one bad season or are we as bad as the Chavs.

Look at Wenger last season for instance, at times Arsenal looked completely clueless.

To be fair Rafa hasn't had us playing awe inspiring football except for last season. With Crouch we were mostly hoofing up to him. When all world class players were always fit (Torres, Gerrard, Alonso) and looking like world class players we were awesome. When they're not you need a plan B.

Wenger has it, Ferguson has it all the way to Z. Some other managers available (Mourinho, Mcleish, Moyes, etc) have additional strings too. Rafa, unfortunately doesn't. Its two defensive midfield holding all the time or nothing for him regardless of attacking fullbacks or not.

[el matador]

im with shaggy to some extent.

no matter what we achieve in the future istanbul will always be firmly etched into my heart. the achievement of that with such a mediocre squad show lots of luck but also a shed load of genius.

i also agree that he was only once given a decent budget and we finished second that season with massive improvement. part of me thinks that with a healthy budget he could bring a lot of success.

however, the flip side cannot be ignored. we play easily the worst football of the big four, our style of play is too regimented and cautious, rafa makes some utterly bewildering decisions, he has on several occasions shown bad judgement in the transfer market, he has too much faith in poor players, he doesnt know how to handle creative players, he is too politically astute for my liking and has managed to alienate probably two of the biggest pillars of this liverpool team in carra and gerrard.

if he stays half of the squad will want to leave. its something that needs to be looked at very carefully do we lose one manager of several key players.

[einar]

I agree completely, with Gerrard gone Rafa would have total control and 30 odd million to spend.

That would be interesting.

I wanted to do that 3 years ago. We could have gotten Villa, Silva and Mata for the money we would have gotten for Steve back then. And would we be a better team now had we done that? I think so.