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    Rafa to blame for all this

    due apologies for starting a new thread on the issue but i felt in the needs of a balanced outlook then everyone should read this



    So as these results play out throughout this torrid season, we - the fans, want answers.
    WHY are we doing so badly?
    WHY when we had the league in our grasp last season have we failed so badly?
    The team hasnt changed apart from Alonso
    It must be Rafa's fault.

    Well let's take a look past what Sky and tabloid "news"papers feed us and think for ourselves a second about what could be the cause for this slump.

    We havent lost one player for a start since the end of last season - we've lost 7:

    Alonso, Arbeloa, Keane, Dossena, Voronin, Pennant and Hyypia.
    Between them they made 169 appearances last season scoring 17 goals.

    Their sales netted us £57.8m.
    Now they may not all be world beaters but they all chipped in when required and they were all extra bodies to rotate.
    Have a think what an extra 17 goals could do to our current points tally in the league or Champions League status?

    We've replaced those 7 this season with 4:

    Johnson, Aquilani, Kyrgiakos and Rodriguez.
    Between them they've made 44 starts this season, scoring 4 goals.

    The latter 2 cost us £1.5m TOGETHER, the first 2 can be argued about but about £33m MAX in total (minus money owed for Crouch) and Aquilani on the drip.
    Total £34.5m

    A POSITIVE TRANSFER BALANCE of £23.3m (that means Benitez has actually MADE the club TWENTY THREE AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) and somehow to replace those who have left we have to find an extra 125 appearances and 13 goals to make up from elsewhere in the existing squad.

    A right back was needed to replace Arbeloa and we got an England International right back for £13m due to the monies owed to us for Crouch.
    That's pretty much a bargain, and GOOD business.

    Aquilani was of course, a gamble, which has not yet paid off.

    Injuries dont help matters either because the other players (who arent good enough) in a smaller squad have to work even harder, and if THEY get injured, then we're really scraping the barrel.

    Having a smaller squad could be thought of as playing every game with 10 men.
    Not literally but over the course of the season, more players having to play more games will take its toll.

    The other people filling in for the missing bodies and lack of top class players have been Lucas, Insua and Ngog who although may not be good enough have worked tirelessly.

    Ngog and Insua started 16 games between them last season and didnt even make the top 18 appearing players.
    This season already they've had to make 75 appearances between them and have worked damn hard, even though they're already condemned to be not good enough.
    I'm not saying they are or aren't good enough.
    I'm arguing that Rafa's hand has been forced into playing them.

    Have they been brought in too soon?
    Do people think Rafa thinks they are his first choice replacements?
    Or forced to bring them in too soon cos there's no-one else?

    It must be so demoralising to have the league in your hands last season and with a little extra push this season to go all the way. Look at the results in the top 4 this season - some shockers.
    It was ours for the taking, yet it was taken away.

    Gerrard scored 24 goals last season - this season? 8.

    Some players arent good enough but are trying their hardest to do their job, some players ARE good enough but might have just given up.

    I know one man who hasnt given up though.
    The same man who didnt give up on Liverpool Football Club in Tokyo when his own father back home in Spain had just died.
    He stayed with US when his father had just died.
    Some people wont even give him the time of day only 10 months after getting us within a whisker of the league.

    You may say its he who should instill morale into the team and should take the blame for the bad times.
    If he is responsible for bad morale then it goes hand in hand that it is he who should take the credit for the good morale.
    Look at the morale last season and the season before.
    Look at the morale when winning European Cups, FA Cups, going to European Finals, getting SO CLOSE to winning the league.
    The same people blaming him for this seasons low morale, conveniently ignore and wont credit him for the morale he's given the team, the fans and the city over the last 5 years.
    When we used to sing his name over and over and over again in the match, in pubs, buses, trains and planes.
    We were the envy of the footballing world for having him and what he'd brought back to Liverpool.
    Yet people now want him gone.

    The man would do anything for this club and for us and he's stuck with us through having his job offered away from under his feet, from being forced to sell players he needed.
    You may question his decisions, you may question his man management, you may be baffled as to what is unfolding right before our eyes.
    But dont question his devotion to this club, the fans and the people of the city.
    The exact same people who have their daggers readily poised behind the man's back.

    He's fighting our corner.
    He's on our side.
    He wants them out as much as we do and god knows they could be on their way out by the end of the year.

    It baffles me how some people can be so fickle, short sighted and have such short memories to conveniently pin the lion's share of the blame on Rafa.
    All for a few months of poor performances, with the depleted squad being the most obvious cause, and who do you think is to blame for that?
    Do you really think he wants this?
    Do you really think he's the major factor behind all of this?
    Do you really think he's that apathetic about us?

    He could have walked long ago but he gave it time.
    Time he has spent under constant pressure, scrutiny, mocking, animosity.
    He gave us his time.
    We cant even give him a season

    #2
    That's a pretty long winded way of saying that Rafa is committed to the team mate,which I don't believe anyone really questions.

    Sometimes a team needs a change to freshen things up,bring in some new ideas,just like when GH was sacked.

    We are far too negative and it just seems to be a normal way of playing now.Just look at the Lille game as just one example of which there are many,1-0 down with 5 mins to go.What does Rafa do,bring on a player that is championship quality at best,who hasn't played at all this season when he had an option to bring on Ngog and change things a bit.

    That isn't about loyalty or commitment,it's about decision making and at the moment,he isn't making good decisions.
    -----------------------------------------------

    'Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.'

    Bill Shankly.

    Comment


      #3
      Dont see why you couldn't have posted your opinion in the other thread to be discussed just like everyone else??

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Armchairkopite View Post
        Dont see why you couldn't have posted your opinion in the other thread to be discussed just like everyone else??


        For that reason alone, I didn't read a word he wrote.
        Oh I don't know.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Armchairkopite View Post
          Dont see why you couldn't have posted your opinion in the other thread to be discussed just like everyone else??
          Originally posted by dom9 View Post


          For that reason alone, I didn't read a word he wrote.
          Maybe he thought that his opinion would get lost in the pages of anti Rafa threads and he wanted a positive (ish) slant put on it.

          We can argue forever about Alonso going (he wanted out, we got major money up front and Rafa didn't see a penny of it) Johnson v Arbeloa, Aquilani etc... but the fundimental bottom line is that whoever was in charge would have struggled, H&G are bleeding us dry and Rafa has done well to hold it together this long if you ask me.

          Funnily enough I don't blame H&G that much, they are leveraged business men, always have been and that is what their history tells everyone so they are only doing what they have done for years, not that I agree with it but it's a bit like letting John Terry get friendly with your wife then moaning 3 weeks later when he's shagged her, you know the likely outcome so why start.

          Moores and Parry couldn't see past the ££ far enough to realise so left us massively in the ****, those 2 have got off ****ing lightly in my opinion
          The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by The Birdman View Post
            Maybe he thought that his opinion would get lost in the pages of anti Rafa threads and he wanted a positive (ish) slant put on it.

            We can argue forever about Alonso going (he wanted out, we got major money up front and Rafa didn't see a penny of it) Johnson v Arbeloa, Aquilani etc... but the fundimental bottom line is that whoever was in charge would have struggled, H&G are bleeding us dry and Rafa has done well to hold it together this long if you ask me.

            Funnily enough I don't blame H&G that much, they are leveraged business men, always have been and that is what their history tells everyone so they are only doing what they have done for years, not that I agree with it but it's a bit like letting John Terry get friendly with your wife then moaning 3 weeks later when he's shagged her, you know the likely outcome so why start.

            Moores and Parry couldn't see past the ££ far enough to realise so left us massively in the ****, those 2 have got off ****ing lightly in my opinion
            We need to move on from that, it happened and there's **** all point in debating it again mate.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by The Birdman View Post
              Maybe he thought that his opinion would get lost in the pages of anti Rafa threads and he wanted a positive (ish) slant put on it.

              We can argue forever about Alonso going (he wanted out, we got major money up front and Rafa didn't see a penny of it) Johnson v Arbeloa, Aquilani etc... but the fundimental bottom line is that whoever was in charge would have struggled, H&G are bleeding us dry and Rafa has done well to hold it together this long if you ask me.

              Funnily enough I don't blame H&G that much, they are leveraged business men, always have been and that is what their history tells everyone so they are only doing what they have done for years, not that I agree with it but it's a bit like letting John Terry get friendly with your wife then moaning 3 weeks later when he's shagged her, you know the likely outcome so why start.

              Moores and Parry couldn't see past the ££ far enough to realise so left us massively in the ****, those 2 have got off ****ing lightly in my opinion
              The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Armchairkopite View Post
                We need to move on from that, it happened and there's **** all point in debating it again mate.
                Agree, pretty pointless really.
                Brandt - Keita - Van Dijk - Sessegnon

                Comment


                  #9
                  Oh come on, it was a good post and a good read. Well in fella.

                  I would say that posts like that make me sit back and think because when it comes to Rafa I am really undecided as to what should happen, over the past few years I have been a huge fan but this year despite all of the off field shennanigans Rafa has under performed. Make no mistake about it. And as Manager he will rightly get flak for that. I think that Rafa needs to be more flexible in his approach to football, I respect his ideas and no doubt he wants to stick by what he thinks is the right way to play football because it has by & large worked for him throughout his career. But it certainly isnt now and does that mean we have a manager who can only do things one way? Thats a huge flaw if so. How many games have we lost this season? 9 or something? Thats **** but worse than that its the manner of the defeat and even the wins we have managed this season, its a results game but I guarantee attacking, free flowing football would buy Rafa more time to get it right. He does have attacking options and yes I know they are not world beaters but a team with Torres, Gerrard, Babel, Aquaman, Benny & Masch to support them should tear most of the premiership apart, these guys are fit now and whilst Im not saying they should all start surely you see my point. Get after teams Rafa, dont let them dictate the pace of a game because its bloody obvious that we are **** when we play like that.

                  For what its worth I would give him next year to fix things.
                  RAFA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Darth Marty View Post
                    Oh come on, it was a good post and a good read. Well in fella.

                    I would say that posts like that make me sit back and think because when it comes to Rafa I am really undecided as to what should happen, over the past few years I have been a huge fan but this year despite all of the off field shennanigans Rafa has under performed. Make no mistake about it. And as Manager he will rightly get flak for that. I think that Rafa needs to be more flexible in his approach to football, I respect his ideas and no doubt he wants to stick by what he thinks is the right way to play football because it has by & large worked for him throughout his career. But it certainly isnt now and does that mean we have a manager who can only do things one way? Thats a huge flaw if so. How many games have we lost this season? 9 or something? Thats **** but worse than that its the manner of the defeat and even the wins we have managed this season, its a results game but I guarantee attacking, free flowing football would buy Rafa more time to get it right. He does have attacking options and yes I know they are not world beaters but a team with Torres, Gerrard, Babel, Aquaman, Benny & Masch to support them should tear most of the premiership apart, these guys are fit now and whilst Im not saying they should all start surely you see my point. Get after teams Rafa, dont let them dictate the pace of a game because its bloody obvious that we are **** when we play like that.

                    For what its worth I would give him next year to fix things.
                    I agree with everything apart from th last sentence.
                    _____________________________________

                    Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

                    Think we have the answer..Slot!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Armchairkopite View Post
                      We need to move on from that, it happened and there's **** all point in debating it again mate.
                      Which is a fair comment except for the fact we have pages and pages debating H&G, debating Rafa and should he go when we've done all those to death as well
                      I am a Mourinho fan but if people think he would have stuck around after having £30m plus taken from his transfer budget without warning then they are mad.

                      I except the side isn't doing as well as it should be and ultimately the buck stops with the manager but right now a new manager would send us properly into freefall imo.
                      The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by merlboo View Post
                        due apologies for starting a new thread on the issue but i felt in the needs of a balanced outlook then everyone should read this



                        So as these results play out throughout this torrid season, we - the fans, want answers.
                        WHY are we doing so badly?
                        WHY when we had the league in our grasp last season have we failed so badly?
                        The team hasnt changed apart from Alonso
                        It must be Rafa's fault.

                        Well let's take a look past what Sky and tabloid "news"papers feed us and think for ourselves a second about what could be the cause for this slump.

                        We havent lost one player for a start since the end of last season - we've lost 7:

                        Alonso, Arbeloa, Keane, Dossena, Voronin, Pennant and Hyypia.
                        Between them they made 169 appearances last season scoring 17 goals.

                        Their sales netted us £57.8m.
                        Now they may not all be world beaters but they all chipped in when required and they were all extra bodies to rotate.
                        Have a think what an extra 17 goals could do to our current points tally in the league or Champions League status?

                        We've replaced those 7 this season with 4:

                        Johnson, Aquilani, Kyrgiakos and Rodriguez.
                        Between them they've made 44 starts this season, scoring 4 goals.

                        The latter 2 cost us £1.5m TOGETHER, the first 2 can be argued about but about £33m MAX in total (minus money owed for Crouch) and Aquilani on the drip.
                        Total £34.5m

                        A POSITIVE TRANSFER BALANCE of £23.3m (that means Benitez has actually MADE the club TWENTY THREE AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) and somehow to replace those who have left we have to find an extra 125 appearances and 13 goals to make up from elsewhere in the existing squad.

                        A right back was needed to replace Arbeloa and we got an England International right back for £13m due to the monies owed to us for Crouch.
                        That's pretty much a bargain, and GOOD business.

                        Aquilani was of course, a gamble, which has not yet paid off.

                        Injuries dont help matters either because the other players (who arent good enough) in a smaller squad have to work even harder, and if THEY get injured, then we're really scraping the barrel.

                        Having a smaller squad could be thought of as playing every game with 10 men.
                        Not literally but over the course of the season, more players having to play more games will take its toll.

                        The other people filling in for the missing bodies and lack of top class players have been Lucas, Insua and Ngog who although may not be good enough have worked tirelessly.

                        Ngog and Insua started 16 games between them last season and didnt even make the top 18 appearing players.
                        This season already they've had to make 75 appearances between them and have worked damn hard, even though they're already condemned to be not good enough.
                        I'm not saying they are or aren't good enough.
                        I'm arguing that Rafa's hand has been forced into playing them.

                        Have they been brought in too soon?
                        Do people think Rafa thinks they are his first choice replacements?
                        Or forced to bring them in too soon cos there's no-one else?

                        It must be so demoralising to have the league in your hands last season and with a little extra push this season to go all the way. Look at the results in the top 4 this season - some shockers.
                        It was ours for the taking, yet it was taken away.

                        Gerrard scored 24 goals last season - this season? 8.

                        Some players arent good enough but are trying their hardest to do their job, some players ARE good enough but might have just given up.

                        I know one man who hasnt given up though.
                        The same man who didnt give up on Liverpool Football Club in Tokyo when his own father back home in Spain had just died.
                        He stayed with US when his father had just died.
                        Some people wont even give him the time of day only 10 months after getting us within a whisker of the league.

                        You may say its he who should instill morale into the team and should take the blame for the bad times.
                        If he is responsible for bad morale then it goes hand in hand that it is he who should take the credit for the good morale.
                        Look at the morale last season and the season before.
                        Look at the morale when winning European Cups, FA Cups, going to European Finals, getting SO CLOSE to winning the league.
                        The same people blaming him for this seasons low morale, conveniently ignore and wont credit him for the morale he's given the team, the fans and the city over the last 5 years.
                        When we used to sing his name over and over and over again in the match, in pubs, buses, trains and planes.
                        We were the envy of the footballing world for having him and what he'd brought back to Liverpool.
                        Yet people now want him gone.

                        The man would do anything for this club and for us and he's stuck with us through having his job offered away from under his feet, from being forced to sell players he needed.
                        You may question his decisions, you may question his man management, you may be baffled as to what is unfolding right before our eyes.
                        But dont question his devotion to this club, the fans and the people of the city.
                        The exact same people who have their daggers readily poised behind the man's back.

                        He's fighting our corner.
                        He's on our side.
                        He wants them out as much as we do and god knows they could be on their way out by the end of the year.

                        It baffles me how some people can be so fickle, short sighted and have such short memories to conveniently pin the lion's share of the blame on Rafa.
                        All for a few months of poor performances, with the depleted squad being the most obvious cause, and who do you think is to blame for that?
                        Do you really think he wants this?
                        Do you really think he's the major factor behind all of this?
                        Do you really think he's that apathetic about us?

                        He could have walked long ago but he gave it time.
                        Time he has spent under constant pressure, scrutiny, mocking, animosity.
                        He gave us his time.
                        We cant even give him a season



                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by The Birdman View Post
                          Which is a fair comment except for the fact we have pages and pages debating H&G, debating Rafa and should he go when we've done all those to death as well
                          I am a Mourinho fan but if people think he would have stuck around after having £30m plus taken from his transfer budget without warning then they are mad.

                          I except the side isn't doing as well as it should be and ultimately the buck stops with the manager but right now a new manager would send us properly into freefall imo.
                          Didn't mean to be rude mate but H&G and Rafa are the present Parry and Moores are the past, I guess that is the difference.

                          As for a new manager, i think your probably right with this multi national team we have how would they react to a new manger right now, not good imo.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Darth Marty View Post
                            Oh come on, it was a good post and a good read. Well in fella.

                            .
                            Top post alright.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Armchairkopite View Post
                              Didn't mean to be rude mate but H&G and Rafa are the present Parry and Moores are the past, I guess that is the difference.

                              As for a new manager, i think your probably right with this multi national team we have how would they react to a new manger right now, not good imo.
                              Again fair point but if that was an unofficial rule on here people wouldn't still be ****ing going on about Alonso leaving
                              The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

                              Comment

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