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    #16
    i've pinched this off this lads site ... think its worth a read





    "ALRIGHT mate, can I have my football back?"


    Having a kickabout as a kid, there were plenty of times I had to brave the wrath of the bitter bloke who lived on his own and got too protective of his garden gnomes.


    It was a daunting task to go and knock for the bright orange Trophy 5 footie – but it had to be done for the good of the game.


    Now I want my football back again – only this time I don't know where to knock.


    Supporting Liverpool these days feels like someone's stuck a knife in the ball. Sometimes, someone turns up with another one and we have a game – like against Benfica.


    All of a sudden, it's just how you remembered it. Floodlights, banter, laughs, good football, great goals, another cracking European result and a couple of bevvies.


    Then the ball's gone again. We're back to the half-baked, half-arsed, nearly-but-not-quite version of the game. Like when someone turned up at the park with a Shoot 5 (those crap flyaways for a nicker from Eddie's shop round the corner).


    You could still have a game, but it wasn't as good (those mad banana shots were funny at first but the novelty soon wore off).


    The novelty of Tom Hicks and George Gillett wore off a long time ago. But like a fart lingering in an old settee, they're still here three years later.


    Their ownership casts a permanent shadow of doubt over the club that is affecting everyone - fans, players, manager. Everyone.


    They turned up clutching a shiny Adidas Tango, wearing a pair of Puma Kenny Dalglish. Everyone took a look and thought, 'Here we go, these lads can play'.


    Yet it turned out they couldn't even kick a ball. And when they went up for a header they closed their eyes and missed it.


    They didn't even know the rules.


    But they weren't the only ones who took their eye off the ball.


    Rick Parry and David Moores asked them round for a game in the first place – and they'd never even seen them play.


    They only had to ask – plenty of people knew their game.


    Now Hicks and Gillett have hidden every footie in the shop. We can't even have a game of headers and volleys. And until someone turns up with a load of money, we're stuck playing knock and run.


    I'm not getting excited about a Chelsea fan who's worked for British Airways becoming a non-executive chairman (or some such trumped-up sh*te) at Anfield.


    And I'm not excited about 'Barcap' looking for a buyer for Liverpool Football Club.


    Because to my mind, to put it bluntly, Hicks and Gillett are taking the p*ss out of us.


    Just when it looked like the big boys would send them packing back to their own park, they've dug their heels in.


    £600m? Why would anyone pay that for Liverpool Football Club in its current state (£237m in debt and looking for the same again and more for a new stadium)?

    An extension from RBS on the deadline fans thought might flush Hicks and Gillett out is just the downer we didn't need.


    And come the summer, if the third bank to tout Liverpool round the globe looking for a buyer can't find a billionaire born yesterday, it will be Rafa Benitez and Fernando Torres taking their ball home.


    And frankly, who can blame them? This isn't what they signed up for. So what's the answer? Well that's the really scary bit...


    No-one seems to know.

    Comment


      #17
      i felt in the needs of a balanced outlook then everyone should read this
      How wonderfully arrogant

      But seriously, it's covered in other threads and this one will follow the same pattern.
      Trey Nyoni: countdown to stardom- 2 years 1year 0.5 years

      Comment


        #18
        can we have one pro and one anti Rafa threads, where all those on whatever side they believe in can have group hugs(wank) with each another.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by merlboo View Post
          i've pinched this off this lads site ... think its worth a read





          "ALRIGHT mate, can I have my football back?"


          Having a kickabout as a kid, there were plenty of times I had to brave the wrath of the bitter bloke who lived on his own and got too protective of his garden gnomes.


          It was a daunting task to go and knock for the bright orange Trophy 5 footie – but it had to be done for the good of the game.


          Now I want my football back again – only this time I don't know where to knock.


          Supporting Liverpool these days feels like someone's stuck a knife in the ball. Sometimes, someone turns up with another one and we have a game – like against Benfica.


          All of a sudden, it's just how you remembered it. Floodlights, banter, laughs, good football, great goals, another cracking European result and a couple of bevvies.


          Then the ball's gone again. We're back to the half-baked, half-arsed, nearly-but-not-quite version of the game. Like when someone turned up at the park with a Shoot 5 (those crap flyaways for a nicker from Eddie's shop round the corner).


          You could still have a game, but it wasn't as good (those mad banana shots were funny at first but the novelty soon wore off).


          The novelty of Tom Hicks and George Gillett wore off a long time ago. But like a fart lingering in an old settee, they're still here three years later.


          Their ownership casts a permanent shadow of doubt over the club that is affecting everyone - fans, players, manager. Everyone.


          They turned up clutching a shiny Adidas Tango, wearing a pair of Puma Kenny Dalglish. Everyone took a look and thought, 'Here we go, these lads can play'.


          Yet it turned out they couldn't even kick a ball. And when they went up for a header they closed their eyes and missed it.


          They didn't even know the rules.


          But they weren't the only ones who took their eye off the ball.


          Rick Parry and David Moores asked them round for a game in the first place – and they'd never even seen them play.


          They only had to ask – plenty of people knew their game.


          Now Hicks and Gillett have hidden every footie in the shop. We can't even have a game of headers and volleys. And until someone turns up with a load of money, we're stuck playing knock and run.


          I'm not getting excited about a Chelsea fan who's worked for British Airways becoming a non-executive chairman (or some such trumped-up sh*te) at Anfield.


          And I'm not excited about 'Barcap' looking for a buyer for Liverpool Football Club.


          Because to my mind, to put it bluntly, Hicks and Gillett are taking the p*ss out of us.


          Just when it looked like the big boys would send them packing back to their own park, they've dug their heels in.


          £600m? Why would anyone pay that for Liverpool Football Club in its current state (£237m in debt and looking for the same again and more for a new stadium)?

          An extension from RBS on the deadline fans thought might flush Hicks and Gillett out is just the downer we didn't need.


          And come the summer, if the third bank to tout Liverpool round the globe looking for a buyer can't find a billionaire born yesterday, it will be Rafa Benitez and Fernando Torres taking their ball home.


          And frankly, who can blame them? This isn't what they signed up for. So what's the answer? Well that's the really scary bit...


          No-one seems to know.
          About the size of it.
          3rd place. Worst champions ever.

          Comment


            #20

            Their ownership casts a permanent shadow of doubt over the club that is affecting everyone - fans, players, manager. Everyone.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Operation View Post
              How wonderfully arrogant

              But seriously, it's covered in other threads and this one will follow the same pattern.

              erm .... the original post was oddly made, a month ago today and was possibly just as relevant back then if not more

              i thought i'd just clear that up for those at the back

              Comment


                #22
                thought a few of yers might want to read this with everything else thats swirling around

                2004/05

                £2m - Josemi: peanuts and was moved on in a swap for Kromkamp 18 months later
                £1.5m - Antonio Nunez: part of the Michael Owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
                £10.7m - Xabi Alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
                £6m - Luis Garcia: Massive success and sold to Athletico Madrid for £4m
                Free - Pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest Sami for league games, benefitting us massively in Istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
                £6.3m - Fernando Morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to Valencia.
                £1m - Scott Carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of Reina when Dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.

                Total bought: £27.5m

                Free - Marcus Babbel: Released to Stuttgart at the end of his career.
                £2.5m - Danny Murphy: Xabi Alonso signed to fill the role Murphy had in the side
                £8.5m - Michael Owen: Wouldn't sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He's done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
                Free - Stephane Henchoz: Released to Celtic at the end of his career

                Total sold: £11m

                A total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on Xabi Alonso.

                2004/05 net spend: £16.5m

                2005/06

                £240,000 - Antonio Barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to Deportivo a year later.
                Free - Boudewijn Zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
                £6m - Pepe Reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of Rafa's best signings.
                £5.6m - Momo Sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to Juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by Mascherano.
                £7m - Peter Crouch: One signing I did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
                Unkown - Miki Roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
                £150,000 - Jack Hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from Lincoln. Didn't progress as hoped and sold to Leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
                £190,000 Besian Idrizaj: No idea who he is
                £1.5m - Mark Gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to Real Betis.
                Exchange - Paul Anderson: Swapped for John Welsh. Sold for £250,000.
                Exchange - Jan Kromkamp: Swapped for Josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
                £5.8m - Daniel Agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
                £250,000 - David Martin: Young reserve keeper
                Free - Robbie Fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.

                Total bought: £26.73

                Free - Vladimir Smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in Istanbul.
                £3.5m - El Hadji Diouf: The best £3.5m Rafa has ever recieved.
                Free - Pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
                £2m - Alou Diarra: Sold for £2m. One of Houllier's buys.
                £2m - Antonio Nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn't work out.
                £6.5m - Milan Baros: A Houllier signing sold at a profit. He's done nothing since.
                Exchange - John Welsh: Swapped for Paul Anderson
                Exchange - Josemi: Swapped for Kronkamp.

                Total sold: £14m

                2005/06 net spend: £12.73m

                2006/07

                £6m - Craig Bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund Torres deal.
                £2m - Gabriel Palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
                Free - Fabio Aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
                £6.7m - Jermaine Pennant: Second choice after missing out on Alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
                £9m - Dirk Kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
                £200,000 - Nabil El Zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
                £750,000 - Astrit Ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to Leicester.
                Loan - Daniele Padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
                Undisclosed - Jordy Brouwer: Young reserve.
                £2.5m - Alvaro Arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
                Loan - Javier Mascherano: Rescued from West Ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to Barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.

                Total bought: £27.15m

                £200,000 - Zak Whitbread: Youngster
                Undisclosed - Bruno Cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
                £3m - Fernando Morientes: Didn't work out. Cut his losses.
                Free - Didi Hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
                £675,000 - Antonio Barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
                £2m - Djimi Traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
                £500,000 - Neil Mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
                £1.75m - Jan Kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
                £525,000 - Darren Potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
                £1.5m - Steven Warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
                Free - Salif Diao: The clearout of Houllier's flops continues.

                Total sold: £10.15m

                2006/07 net spend: £17m

                2007/08


                £5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
                Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
                £270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
                £1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
                £20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
                Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
                £5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
                £11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
                Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
                £1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
                £6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
                £18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal

                Total bought: £70.7m

                £2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
                £100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell: Kid sold
                Free – Jerzy Dudek: Released at end of contract
                Free - Zenden: Released at end of contract
                Free – Robbie Fowler: Released at end of contract
                £4m – Luis Garcia: Wanted to return to Spain. Great service.
                £6m – Djibril Cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund Torres deal.
                £7.5m – Craig Bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund Torres deal
                £3.5m – Mark Gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
                £1.2m – Gabriel Palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
                £3.5m – Chris Kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
                £8.2m – Momo Sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.

                Total sold: £36.7m

                2007/08 net spend: £34m

                2008/09

                Free – Philip Degen: Garbage, but free.
                £7m - Andrea Dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
                £3.5m – Diego Cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
                £1.5m – David N’gog: Young French striker. Promising.
                £19m – Robbie Keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to Spurs for £16m.
                £8m - Albert Riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.

                Total bought: £39m

                £4m – John Arne Riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
                Free – Harry Kewell: Harry who?
                Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
                £11m – Peter Crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
                £2.25m – Danny Guthrie: Youngster from Acadamy thought not good enough.
                £3.25m – Scott Carson: Injury prone and Reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
                Undisclosed – Steve Finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
                £16m – Robbie Keane: Didn’t work out.
                Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.

                Total sold: £36.5m

                2008/09 net spend: £2.5m


                2009/10

                £17.5m – Glen Johnson: Big fee, but has been ok so far.
                £17.1m - Alberto Aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in Italy.
                £2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill Hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
                £160,000 – Daniel Ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.

                Total bought: £36.76m

                £250,000 – Paul Anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
                Free – Jermaine Pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
                Free – Miki Roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
                £3m – Sebastian Leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
                £3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
                £30m – Xabi Alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.

                Total sold: £36.75m

                2009/10 net spend: £10,000


                Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
                Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

                Total Net Spend: £83,876,000


                So, that’s a total spend of just over £83m in 5 years at the club. An average of £16.6m a year.

                The vast majority of his signings have been sold at profit, or if still at the club, are worth a lot more than we paid for them. Exceptions being Babel and Dossena, but we’ll still get decent fees for them when sold as they’re full internationals.

                A lot of the signings above have been stepping stones in rebuilding the squad, gradually improving it by replacing players with better ones. Our league positions over the past 5 years and the improvement in our league positions and points totals show the progression.

                2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
                2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
                2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
                2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
                2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

                Is it any coincidence that the progression seems to have stopped this summer? Look at the transfer activity above for this year and it might explain why.

                Look at our net spend over the past 2 years!

                We have a wage bill that is the 5th highest in the league. We can’t afford to pay players £70,000 to be sat on the bench like United and Chelsea can.

                Rafa Benitez’ record with signings at the top end of the market is nothing short of brilliant. Robbie Keane being the only flop, but he was sold 6 months later and only a small financial hit taken on that mistake. Rick Parry agreed the fee for buying him in the first place, and common knowledge Rafa wasn’t happy with it; feeling it was far too high.

                Where has this myth come from that he’s wasted money on ****e players? Have a look through the lists above and try to point them out. There isn’t many.

                The ones that haven’t worked out he’s moved on, and not very often has he made a financial loss on them.

                The squad is now worth a hell of a lot more than the one he inherited, and that £83m net spend over 5 years is easily offset by the increased value of the squad. He’d recoup nearly all of that through the sale of Torres alone!

                He’s worked absolute wonders with the money he’s had to spend. Then take into account the massive amounts of money he’s self generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL every season. Two final appearances, one win. That £83m he’s spent he’s earned the right to spend.

                And when comparing it to what United have spent in the same period is flawed, as they already had a title winning squad and all the foundations in place. They weren’t rebuilding from scratch like we were. It also doesn’t take into account their massive wage bill.

                When comparing to Chelsea, they spent all their money before Rafa came to the club and just topping up an already established squad.

                Man City have spent more than double in the past 12 months than Rafa Benitez has in his 5 year reign.

                Do some people still want to get rid of him? If so, you’ve been listening to Andy Gray and Richard Keys for too much and unable to look at the facts yourself to form an opinion.

                Every manager makes tactical mistakes. Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Despite what the press seem to think; Rafael Benitez appears to make less mistakes than most.

                We’re expected to win the league and European Cup on a budget and wage bill that is entitled to finish 4th or 5th in the league. We’ve been overachieving under Rafael Benitez, not underachieving.

                I’m not even going to mention the environment he’s working in under them two clowns.

                You’ll only miss him when he’s gone….

                Comment


                  #23
                  net spend, gross spend , I'm sick to the back teeth of it.

                  In the old days football was a game that was played when the whistle goes until the referee blows the final whistle and whatever took place on the pitch is what ALL fans were interested in.
                  If we look at the football, barring 1 half of last season the foot ball has been has been generally boring (as the 1st half was dire and very fortunate, especially the first 10ish or so games.) . One dimensional, defensive, negative, these are nothing to do with spend just the type of manager Benitez is.

                  Let's look at this from a FOOTBALLING perspective and for Benitez that is bad "no" , as we can't even pass the ball properly, backwards is safer than forward etc. You also go on about the liverpool way, the Liverpool way is about playing football properly, Benitez has managed to get you all thinking that the liverpool way is blindly supporting a manager whose out for himself.
                  I was as happy as everyone else when we won the ECL and FA cup, although lets be honest was a long time ago now and slightly fortunate, but he did it and deserves respect for that, but not blindf faith.

                  Benitez has full control this year and this is our worst season for some time. The manager has to take the blame and another year of Benitez slating his employers is going to do nothing for the club or the team.

                  It's time to say goodbye to Rafa, thanks for the 2 memories, and let's look to the future with hopefully better quality of footbal that we will all enjoy or at least winning football.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by gwdy View Post
                    net spend, gross spend , I'm sick to the back teeth of it.

                    In the old days football was a game that was played when the whistle goes until the referee blows the final whistle and whatever took place on the pitch is what ALL fans were interested in.
                    If we look at the football, barring 1 half of last season the foot ball has been has been generally boring (as the 1st half was dire and very fortunate, especially the first 10ish or so games.) . One dimensional, defensive, negative, these are nothing to do with spend just the type of manager Benitez is.

                    Let's look at this from a FOOTBALLING perspective and for Benitez that is bad "no" , as we can't even pass the ball properly, backwards is safer than forward etc. You also go on about the liverpool way, the Liverpool way is about playing football properly, Benitez has managed to get you all thinking that the liverpool way is blindly supporting a manager whose out for himself.
                    I was as happy as everyone else when we won the ECL and FA cup, although lets be honest was a long time ago now and slightly fortunate, but he did it and deserves respect for that, but not blindf faith.

                    Benitez has full control this year and this is our worst season for some time. The manager has to take the blame and another year of Benitez slating his employers is going to do nothing for the club or the team.

                    It's time to say goodbye to Rafa, thanks for the 2 memories, and let's look to the future with hopefully better quality of footbal that we will all enjoy or at least winning football.

                    Did you watch us play last year??
                    The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Rafa to blame for all this

                      ****e tactics/decisions and the fact we coud have bought a couple of chandeliers instead if a load of lamps cost us this season.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Did you read the post ? Did you watch ALL of last season, obviously not............so even if you judge the whole of last season is 1 season enough to use as evidence over a far longer tenure ?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by gwdy View Post
                          net spend, gross spend , I'm sick to the back teeth of it.

                          In the old days football was a game that was played when the whistle goes until the referee blows the final whistle and whatever took place on the pitch is what ALL fans were interested in.
                          If we look at the football, barring 1 half of last season the foot ball has been has been generally boring (as the 1st half was dire and very fortunate, especially the first 10ish or so games.) . One dimensional, defensive, negative, these are nothing to do with spend just the type of manager Benitez is.

                          Let's look at this from a FOOTBALLING perspective and for Benitez that is bad "no" , as we can't even pass the ball properly, backwards is safer than forward etc. You also go on about the liverpool way, the Liverpool way is about playing football properly, Benitez has managed to get you all thinking that the liverpool way is blindly supporting a manager whose out for himself.
                          I was as happy as everyone else when we won the ECL and FA cup, although lets be honest was a long time ago now and slightly fortunate, but he did it and deserves respect for that, but not blindf faith.

                          Benitez has full control this year and this is our worst season for some time. The manager has to take the blame and another year of Benitez slating his employers is going to do nothing for the club or the team.

                          It's time to say goodbye to Rafa, thanks for the 2 memories, and let's look to the future with hopefully better quality of footbal that we will all enjoy or at least winning football.
                          Why didn't you come out last season to say something similar when we were in the chase for the title? Or in the past 4 seasons? People always seem to forget what he has done. One bad season and some fans are asking for his head.

                          Seeing how things are going, those calling for Rafa to go might just get their wish. It will be a sad day when it comes.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Well said!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by sitoca View Post
                              Why didn't you come out last season to say something similar when we were in the chase for the title? Or in the past 4 seasons? People always seem to forget what he has done. One bad season and some fans are asking for his head.

                              Seeing how things are going, those calling for Rafa to go might just get their wish. It will be a sad day when it comes.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I've been saying similar for 4 yrs but taking abuse of blind faithers isn't my idea of fun. Believe me or not, I don't really care. 1 bad season ?? how the mighty have fallen, you even believe that Benitez's time has been all success then ? finishing outside the top 2 in general is now success to the Rafa brigade, Shankly would be happy.

                                Comment

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