Rafa to blame for all this

[Guest]

its all about expectations.

Shankly took liverpool from the old division 2 and then won the cup and the league.

Supporters were not expecting miracles at that stage but I need to check back but I am pretty sure Liverpool probably finished highrer than 7th...

Lost an European cup semi final after being 3-1 in the first leg. Shankly's major failure was not leading us to European success when we had a team capable of doing it. Even the greatest of managers don't find success at everything they touch. I think the greatest way of building success is through stability and we've got that now on the managerial side of things especially so because we're so hot and cold at boardroom level.

[Mattshark]

its all about expectations.

Shankly took liverpool from the old division 2 and then won the cup and the league.

Supporters were not expecting miracles at that stage but I need to check back but I am pretty sure Liverpool probably finished highrer than 7th...

How about 6th in 66-67 with 10 defeats after being champions the previous season and 5th in 69-70 with 11 defeats.

Also, there have been a few seasons when our current points total would have already got us CL football. In fact this is the first season since Rafa has took over that this points total so far would not have given us a high odds of CL qualification.
The last time we would have failed to qualify with this points total was 02-03.

[Exiled_red]

If it's about expectations then some people need to change theirs - there is no way we can expect to compete for the league with zero net spend.

With Spurs, City and Villa all seemingly in a stronger financial position than us at present, evern challenging for a CL place will become more and more difficult.

[Mattshark]

With Spurs, City and Villa all seemingly in a stronger financial position than us at present, evern challenging for a CL place will become more and more difficult.

See above.

[merlboo]

latest from Tony Barrett in The Times in a pretty balanced view ,i think

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2010/05/tom-hicks-and-george-gillett-are-the-real-problem-at-liverpool.html

Tom Hicks and George Gillett have pulled many stunts in their time, the most obvious one being their purchase of Liverpool Football Club on the back of a string of promises they were unlikely ever to keep.

But even that is starting to look a minor ruse in comparison to their convincing of so many people in football that all of Liverpool’s myriad ills will be rectified by the removal of Rafael Benitez is manager.
They haven’t done it publicly and they haven’t done it with statements questioning Benitez’s ability or pronouncements doubting his aptitude to manage one of Europe’s greatest clubs.

They have done it by stealth, fading into the background after advice from the two PR firms employed by Hicks – both of whom had their costs met, until recently, by Liverpool. The idea may have been simple but the results have been startlingly effective.

While the worst owners Liverpool could ever have wished for have been able to get on with their comfortable lives in the USA without fear of being challenged about their failings and, let’s tell it like it is, their ongoing destruction of one of the most famed institutions in world sport, Benitez has had to face the full glare of the media spotlight to discuss his own limitations and those of his team on almost a daily basis.

This has meant all discourse about Liverpool has been dominated by questioning of Benitez’s signings, his team selection, his substitutions – the furore over Fernando Torres being taken off at Birmingham is only just beginning to die down weeks after it happened – and his apparent coldness.

Let’s get one thing straight – this is not a defence of Benitez. As he himself has pointed out, the Liverpool manager has made some big mistakes over the last couple of years and even his greatest admirers would be hard pressed to defend signing the likes of Andrea Dossena, Philipp Degen, Robbie Keane and, judging by his injury-ravaged travails this season, Alberto Aquilani.

Benitez’s performance over the past 12 months has not been of the standard required and he has to accept his share of responsibility for an absolute abomination of a season in which Liverpool have lost 19 times and limped from one setback to another. At a normal club which is well run and equally well financed, a tumble from genuine title challengers to also-rans would guarantee only one thing for the man in charge – instant dismissal.

But Liverpool are anything but a normal club. They are one which is crippled by inordinate levels of debt (heaped on them by Hicks and Gillett), one which has been riddled by boardroom in-fighting (started by Hicks and Gillett), one which cannot compete at the top level in the transfer market (because of the failings of Hicks and Gillett) and one which is in a state of continuous and insidious limbo (because of Hicks’ and Gillett’s sale process and ridiculous asking price).

It is one where the solution to such limbo is seen to be the appointment of a Chelsea-supporting chairman (to break the boardroom deadlock caused by Hicks and Gillett), where Benitez is handed a five year contract complete with a £16 million payout which means the manager cannot be sacked when things go wrong (as agreed by Hicks and Gillett), where the oft-promised and desperately needed new stadium remains a pipe dream (another failing by Hicks and Gillett) and where the future is becoming increasingly bleak and uncertain (thanks to Hicks and Gillett).

There is a blame culture in football whenever things go wrong but sometimes fingers can be pointed in, if not the wrong direction, then certainly one which allows those who are the biggest culprits to escape the full weight of criticism that they deserve.

Since Liverpool’s predictable defeat at the hands of Chelsea at the weekend, page after page of editorial comment has been devoted to the failings of Benitez. Some of it has been entirely fair and some of it has been preposterous – does anyone with a modicum of commom sense really believe that £1.5 million Sotirios Kyrgiakos was signed as anything other than a squad stop gap because of a chronic lack of funds or that the retention of Danny Murphy would have cured all of Liverpool’s ills – but whatever your opinion of Benitez you cannot have failed to notice a similar lack of critical column inches being devoted to Hicks and Gillett.

Out of sight clearly means out of mind as far as sections of the British media are concerned. Never mind the fact that Liverpool have spent much of the last three years shipping in the region of £100,000 in interest payments every day, a haemorrhaging of money and resources which would jeopardise any business, never mind one which is unable to invest to anything like the same extent of its major competitors.

Again, it must be stressed that Benitez has been his own worst enemy at times during this American enforced era of austerity. His net spend is often used as a defence when his failings in the transfer market and there is some justification to such arguments, particularly given the fact that should Fernando Torres be sold this summer the £70 million he would fetch would all but wipe out Benitez’s spending over and above what he has recouped. But even this should not be allowed to detract from the fact that it was Benitez who scouted and recruited Aquilani, Riera, Degen, Voronin, Dossena, etc. They are his purchases and none have improved Liverpool and when resources become scarce their shortcomings were only ever going to be increasingly exposed.

It is a matter of administering blame where blame is due and Benitez has to take his fair share, anything else would be to create a farcical situation of managerial infallibility and a vacuum of responsibility.
But the overwhelming accountability for the horrendous mess that Liverpool find themselves in must lie with the buffoons who described themselves as “custodians”. It is they who heaped the debt onto the club which means they cannot sensibly afford to sack the manager.

It is they who gave Benitez the five year deal that tilted the balance of contractual power too much in his favour. It is they whose failings have gradually reduced Liverpool’s ability to compete at the transfer market. It is they who have singularly failed to provide anything by way of convincing and decisive leadership ever since they were handed the keys to the Shankly Gates in February 2007.

By all means criticise Benitez. By all means call for him to be replaced. Everyone has a right to such opinions, after all. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that at least his motives are genuine, he wants success for both himself and his team.

The ostensible motives of Hicks and Gillett are to bleed Liverpool dry before moving onto their next leveraged buyout and it is they who must carry the can for the sorry state of a football club which looks increasingly doomed with every passing day, a feeling that will only intensify tomorrow should Manchester City beat Tottenham and put themselves in line for a place at the top table of European football that used to be Liverpool's but one which they may not even be in a position to take up for years to come

[Kenneth]

Parallel thread alert.

[Vermilion]

Great talk by McAteer on radio just now...more or less said what most believe, that Rafa is the man to do the re-building should new owners be found, and that he has had his hands tied by inept ownership.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Great talk by McAteer on radio just now...more or less said what most believe, that Rafa is the man to do the re-building should new owners be found, and that he has had his hands tied by inept ownership.

i would say that it's a 50/50 split over rafa these days for true fans.

[Reece]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1272460/Martin-Samuel-Dont-weep-Rafa-Benitez-bed-.html

There exists a very good reason why Liverpool have not gone creeping to Rafael Benitez to offer or receive assurances about his future at the club. Probably, when they gave him the five-year contract he had driven them mad for last season, they thought all that nonsense was over.

On March 17, 2009, having taken full advantage of making Liverpool competitive in the title race for the first time since arriving at Anfield, Benitez agreed a contract until 2014. Why, then, should the club be enquiring obsequiously about his long-term plans now?

As usual with Benitez, the details conflict. He is said to have cancelled two meetings with his bosses, yet only last week claimed there had been no moves to ensure he stayed. Yet, why should there be? If Benitez wants to go to Juventus — who are in no better state than Liverpool, in that each club is no longer the powerhouse of old — he needs to approach his employers and ask to be released, not the other way around. Chances are they will comply. The romance has long fled from this relationship.
No love lost: The romance between Liverpool and Benitez has long since died

No love lost: The romance between Liverpool and Benitez has long since died

It is worth remembering, too, that Benitez made the running over his lengthy commitment to Liverpool. Rick Parry, the chief executive, was as good as thrown overboard to accommodate him and Benitez asked for control of transfer policy, and received it. He got everything he wanted and has responded with a wipe-out. Liverpool supporters had better hope their team did roll over against Chelsea on Sunday; if that was them trying, they really do have a problem.

Benitez is hinting that certain guarantees have not been met, but this is an old tactic. Whether Liverpool have the money for the massive rebuilding project required after 105 player trades in five seasons is an entirely different matter.

What they do have, Benitez utilises as he wishes, and no manager can ask for more. It is unrealistic to be allowed to spend money that the club does not possess. Along this road Portsmouth lies and if Benitez was unaware that Liverpool were relatively impoverished until new owners could be found, he was alone in this misapprehension.

He certainly seemed keen enough to stay a year ago. Liverpool executives spent the season walking on eggshells around Benitez due to his demands for a long-term contract on his terms.

I recall the press team being terrified of allowing any one-on-one interviews with their manager, because the one time he sat down with a journalist he used the opportunity to relentlessly pursue his own agenda, leading to months of speculation about divisions at the club. He twice hijacked press conferences on the eve of major matches to do the same.

More from Martin Samuel...

* Martin Samuel: Ribery case exposes the cowardice of our sweet FA 02/05/10
* MARTIN SAMUEL: Maddie, the heartrending dilemma 30/04/10
* Martin Samuel: Once upon a time there was a fairytale at the Cottage... 29/04/10
* Martin Samuel: Bravo, Jose for dousing Barcelona myth in Inter win 29/04/10
* Martin Samuel: Forget the halo, even the blessed Barca are tainted by greed 27/04/10
* Martin Samuel: Even the Special One can't hope to match Fergie feat 25/04/10
* MARTIN SAMUEL: We are just one puff of dust from disaster (again) 22/04/10
* MARTIN SAMUEL: Change the script if you want a happy ending, Arsene 20/04/10
* VIEW FULL ARCHIVE



In the end, two results drove Benitez and his many caveats over the line. Liverpool beat Real Madrid 4-0 at Anfield on March 10, then went to Manchester United and won 4-1 on March 14. The supporters were understandably ecstatic.

Liverpool were on for a League and European double and Benitez could do no wrong. It was pondered whether any manager was more capable of achieving those results for Liverpool; the answer was no, and by the time the club next played Benitez had his five-year contract.

Since when, just about any bloke with a tracksuit and a grade one coaching badge could have replicated Liverpool’s form. With the exception of a home win over Manchester United in October this season, they have been second best to every good team they have played, and some lousy ones, like Reading, too.

At Valencia, his previous club, Benitez’s chosen exit strategy was to escape through the fog of civil war. It looks like a similar getaway is being schemed here. Benitez, sensing that even Gordon Brown could win a popularity contest against the present Liverpool owners, is likely to reach his new job in Serie A via the high moral ground, spinning up tales of broken promises and executive incompetence.

As he has done considerably more for Liverpool in recent years than any man in a suit, he will more than likely win this last skirmish. Does that mean he is justified? Not really. This season has been as calamitous as 2004-05 was miraculous.
The miracle of Istanbul: Benitez and Steven Gerrard celebrate the mother of all comebacks in the Ataturk Stadium

The miracle of Istanbul: Benitez and Steven Gerrard celebrate the mother of all comebacks in the Ataturk Stadium

Financial hardship is not the only myth circulating about Benitez’s reign. It is stated that he has been unfortunate because his points total of 86 last season would have won the League this year. Unlikely.

If Chelsea beat Wigan Athletic on Sunday, their points total will be 86 but their goal difference will be above its current level of 63. Liverpool finished with 86 points and plus 50 goals last season, so they would have come second just the same, albeit narrowly.

The fact is, Manchester United got more than 86 points last year, making Liverpool second best, and this year when 86 would have been a potential title-winning tally, Liverpool can amass only 65, maximum.

Using last season’s points total to make the case for Benitez this year is as redundant as the former managers of Newcastle United, Middlesbrough and West Bromwich Albion claiming that, unless Hull City win 11-0 on Sunday, the points totals on which they were relegated last season would have been enough to keep them in the Premier League this year. Tough. Were you the worst three teams in the League in 2008-09? Then you deserved to go down.

The transfer market, not mathematics, has been Benitez’s downfall.

His supporters always focus on his net spend, but that is misleading, too. The majority of managers have to sell to buy, particularly in the current economic climate; it is what they buy that is critical. Benitez has too often compounded the problems at Liverpool with misjudgments.

Alberto Aquilani (£17.1million), Andrea Dossena (£7m), Robbie Keane (£19m), Albert Riera (£8m), Martin Skrtel (£6.5m), Lucas (£5m), Ryan Babel (£11.5m), Craig Bellamy (£6m), Jermaine Pennant (£6.7m), Mohamed Sissoko (£5.6m), Luis Garcia (£6m), Fernando Morientes (£6.3m).
Liverpool's Alberto Aquilani
Albert Riera, Liverpool

Costly: The likes of Aquilini (left) and Riera were bought - at significant expense - by Benitez

That is more than £100m on players who have either failed at Liverpool or been, at best, temporary or ordinary. It does not matter that Benitez has been made to wheel and deal. If he loses Peter Crouch for £11m and spends the money wisely, Liverpool still end up a better team. If he loses Crouch and spends on the ineffective, lightly-used Babel, Liverpool end up where they are now.

Benitez has spent £79.4m more than he has brought in, so has been given roughly £16m each season on top of what he has been able to drum up by selling players he does not rate.

Real hardship is bringing in £40m through player sales and being given £10m to spend; not selling £40m and receiving a budget for £56m. Many of the candidates to replace him, not least Roy Hodgson at Fulham, would view Benitez’s balance sheet as a windfall, not a free pass for a dig at the directors and a private jet away from Anfield.

No doubt there will be more talk of broken promises as Benitez edges towards the exit. He turned water into wine in his first season, water into Babycham on a few occasions after, and water into a stagnant bucket of rotting fish-heads almost from the moment he signed his new contract.

He will leave behind memories of magnificent individual victories, one epic night in Istanbul, the poison pill of a weak squad and a disillusioned Fernando Torres, now more vulnerable to a move from Chelsea. Over five years of gathering chaos the club can hardly moan, but neither should he. He can leave with head held high; stay much longer and his feet could be held higher.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz0n2i6U13p


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Yet another **** article, by a **** journalist, for a **** paper.

[Vermilion]

The Daily (hate) Mail...i hear that red top the 'scum', are running similar articles. And it's not out of love for the club that they are either, wake up people!.

[Shaggy]

Martin Samuel is one of the most narrow-minded, moronic journalists out there.

[Vermilion]

Martin Samuel is one of the most narrow-minded, moronic journalists out there.

And they win awards for this tripe. What the hell is the world coming too, the media shape so many peoples opinion it's unreal..

[Pablo]

Martin Samuel is one of the most narrow-minded, moronic journalists out there.

It's the only part of him that is narrow, the fat *******.

[PTP]

make it stop please!!! ****ing hell, we are just getting slaughtered from every ****ing angle here. It's open season, it must be the bestg job in the world at the moment, being a sports journalist.

Editor: I need something to sell the back pages tomorrow.....
Journo: no problem boss........."LFC ATE MY BABIES SHOCK"

by lunch time it's finished and you can take the rest of the afternoon off playing golf.


i'm just fed up, we are being destroyed in front of us and there is nothing we can do. I just want it to end, i am so fed up now i just don't care what happens - i just want it all to **** off and leave us alone

[Kenneth]

"If he loses Peter Crouch for £11m and spends the money wisely, Liverpool still end up a better team. If he loses Crouch and spends on the ineffective, lightly-used Babel, Liverpool end up where they are now."