What I think is needed for 4th place...

[Redshadow]

Carheex - It can happen re fourth place that a team (or teams) suddenly 'bottle' it - Remember 2003/2004 when WE got Fourth prior to the Istanbul season? Well the main reason we got fourth so easily was that Newcastle and Aston Villa (our main competitors at the time for that spot) ''bottled it'' RIGHT at the last minute and we had a run of 3 straight wins (United away, Brum away and Boro' at home) along with a draw v Fulham, then a final draw (v Newcastle of all teams) whilst Villa drew with Newcastle and Southampton then lost to United on the last day for 3 draws and a loss out of their final 3 games;

At the same time; Newcastle, as well as the above mentioned draw with Villa then drew also with Wolves (at Home!!), Southampton (in a mad 3-3 game away where a Scouse Southampton keeper of all things kept them out if I remember rightly - LFC fan as well!!) and then us (at Anfield on the final day of Houllier's time in charge), they also lost at Man City, whilst beating only Chelsea for 1 win, 1 loss and 4 draws out of 6 games. Put up Villa OR Newcastle's results at that time against our own 3 wins and 2 draws from our final five games and it's clear that we came into form JUST as they both lost theirs. What's also clear is that this occurred Right at the crucial time of the season when a late surge would have seen a team claim 4th for their own that season - we produced Just such a surge and at the very Last possible moment as well.

This, don't forget all happened AFTER both Villa and Newcastle were both in better positions than us to claim 4th after a couple of dire Easter losses to Charlton and Arsenal on our part. But then? The form book was turned on it's head, our 'competitors' form collapsed whilst our suddenly flew and we were clear to take 4th rather easily in the end. If that's not as clear a case of bottling it as you're going to get from Newcastle and Villa, I really don't know what is.................

[red g]

I'm not sure about that. Teams can "wobble" in cup finals or if the league title is at stake but I don't think it applies to the finishing in the giddy-heights of 4th place!

Besides, both spurs and city have got some quality experienced players who have won a lot of things at bigger clubs so "bottling 4th place" isn't really something we can rely on them for. I don't think the "pressure" of 4th place is going to phase the likes of viera, tevez, adebayor, crouch, cuducini, bridge, keane, woodgate etc etc. If anything, our players are more likely to buckle under the pressure due to the unrealsitic expectation levels of our club!

for city, spurs or villa, 4th is giddy heights.

and there is a lot of pressure on those clubs.

we are not lijkely to buckle........as we havent got anything to buckle from, we havent put a run together all season

[Craig_H]

Agree with red g, despite there being no trophy, the position of 4th place is hugely coveted and it's therefore seen as an achievement - hence pressure comes with it, and it's a holy grail for 75% of the challengers for it, so of course this pressure can take its toll.

Similar to the title run-in (although to a lesser extent, and with a greater margin for error), the race for 4th requires teams to keep churning out results and everytime a team drops points, there's a threat that one of their rivals for 4th can take advantage and steal a march on them. This is why there's pressure involved and as red g said, we're used to that, whilst the others arent.

[Big-Red-Ed]

The problem is we need 3 teams to bottle it. Chances are that at least one of them will hang on in there and do just enough to keep us out.

[Craig_H]

The problem is we need 3 teams to bottle it. Chances are that at least one of them will hang on in there and do just enough to keep us out.

I dont see the problem - Villa are already ****ing up. Spurs dont need to 'bottle it', they just need to do what they always do - lose to the top 3.

City as well, as just vulnerable, rather than needing to 'bottle it' - they're just not consistent.

[Big-Red-Ed]

I dont see the problem - Villa are already ****ing up. Spurs dont need to 'bottle it', they just need to do what they always do - lose to the top 3.

City as well, as just vulnerable, rather than needing to 'bottle it' - they're just not consistent.

Craig, I know where your coming from but the problem is we are ****e and I can't see us suddenly winning nearly all of our games.

[Exiled_red]

I agree - nothing is guaranteed, and on our day all four of us could potentially win every game. For City and Spurs not to drop the required points with the fixtures they've got would mean them going on a run that they haven't managed all season. They need to exceed expectations given their fixtures, whereas we just need to do what should be expected of us.

Personally, I'm confident that the other three will drop the points that would give us 4th place with 6 wins. I'm less confident about getting those 6 wins though!

That's true, but also we have to go on a run that we haven't gone on all season even to get 18 points. Yeah we were expected at the start of the season to go on runs like that, but things have turned out very differently as the season has progressed.

This season our best run of league form over 7 consecutive league games has seen us pick up 15/21 points. We need to better that in the remaining 7, and still hope that results go our way.

[Exiled_red]

I dont see the problem - Villa are already ****ing up. Spurs dont need to 'bottle it', they just need to do what they always do - lose to the top 3.

City as well, as just vulnerable, rather than needing to 'bottle it' - they're just not consistent.

Craig, I know where your coming from but the problem is we are ****e and I can't see us suddenly winning nearly all of our games.

The problem for me isn't the other teams dropping points, its us picking up enough.

[calvoboy]

That's true, but also we have to go on a run that we haven't gone on all season even to get 18 points. Yeah we were expected at the start of the season to go on runs like that, but things have turned out very differently as the season has progressed.

This season our best run of league form over 7 consecutive league games has seen us pick up 15/21 points. We need to better that in the remaining 7, and still hope that results go our way.

That's why I'm confident of the others dropping the required points but not so confident of us getting the 6 wins we need. On paper though, this has to be our 'easiest' spell of the season?

[Craig_H]

Craig, I know where your coming from but the problem is we are ****e and I can't see us suddenly winning nearly all of our games.

We've been ****e away, yes.

11 wins from 15 home games suggests we're good at Anfield. So i see no reason why we shouldnt beat Sunderland, Fulham, WHU and Chelsea at home.

Away's been different, but we've got Birmingham whose form has faded hugely, Hull who are just ****, and Burnley whose home form has died away massively.

At the end of the day, it's 3 away games against massively inferior opposition. I think we can win them.

[Craig_H]

That's true, but also we have to go on a run that we haven't gone on all season even to get 18 points. Yeah we were expected at the start of the season to go on runs like that, but things have turned out very differently as the season has progressed.

This season our best run of league form over 7 consecutive league games has seen us pick up 15/21 points. We need to better that in the remaining 7, and still hope that results go our way.

But have we had a run of 7 games as easy as this forthcoming batch?

[Craig_H]

That's why I'm confident of the others dropping the required points but not so confident of us getting the 6 wins we need. On paper though, this has to be our 'easiest' spell of the season?

Hold on mate, you said earlier:

The problem is we need 3 teams to bottle it. Chances are that at least one of them will hang on in there and do just enough to keep us out.

That's what i originally replied to you about. Now you're saying you're confident of them dropping the points.

[Vermilion]

[Exiled_red]

But have we had a run of 7 games as easy as this forthcoming batch?

The run I mentioned was very similar to our remaining fixtures (obviously Home and Away venues were reversed) and included games against, Burnley, West Ham, Hull, Chelsea and Sunderland all of whom we play in the remaining games. The only difference are in our remaining games we have Fulham and Birmingham rather than Bolton and Villa. So the two are quite comparable on that basis perhaps we can expect some decent form but we still have to put a better run together than we have at any point previously

[Exiled_red]

Also we had a sequence of 7 against Wigan, Portsmouth, Wolves, Villa, Stoke, Spurs and Bolton from which we only got 12/21 points. Ironically winning the two most difficult games against Villa and Spurs.