Birmingham - Liverpool Match Thread

[red g]

Crikey. Says a lot in my opinion.

to liverpool fans, to liverpool players.

what must our players thought when torres was coming off? pretty much same as us all.

lunacy.

[Leyton388]

I want Torres, Gerrard, Mash, Riena to stay at LFC more than Rafa. If rafa stays i fear we will lose these guys.

[BobTheCharmer]

I want Torres, Gerrard, Mash, Riena to stay at LFC more than Rafa. If rafa stays i fear we will lose these guys.

I want Babel to stay more than Rafa. Thats how little I think of Mr Benitez right now.

[Bender]

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has defended his substitution of Fernando Torres in the 1-1 draw with Birmingham, saying the striker was "exhausted".
Torres was replaced on 65 minutes by David Ngog, who missed several chances as Liverpool pushed for a vital win.
"Torres was exhausted, we played 60 minutes with 10 players the other day," said Benitez, referring to Liverpool's 2-1 defeat by Benfica on Thursday.
"Ngog was good because he was a pair of fresh legs and his movement was good."
Ngog also replaced Torres in the closing stages of the Europa League game with Benfica after the Spaniard was deployed as a lone striker following Ryan Babel's first-half dismissal.

Torres has scored 20 goals in all competitions for Liverpool this season despite a lay-off with a knee injury.
And he was seen nursing his other knee with a pack of ice shortly after taking his place on the Liverpool substitute's bench, though Benitez insisted the striker was not withdrawn because of injury.
Prior to Torres' substitution, Steven Gerrard had given Liverpool the lead early in the second half, but Liam Ridgewell quickly pulled Birmingham level.
The draw leaves Liverpool four points behind fourth-place Manchester City having played a game more than their rivals in the race for the final Champions League slot.
But Benitez, who has always maintained that Liverpool would qualify for the Champions League despite an inconsistent season, insisted his side could still snatch fourth place.
"We have to keep going, we were talking before the game about maybe winning five and draw one, so now we have to win five," said Liverpool's Spanish manager.


"We didn't have any margin for error beforehand and now we have less margin in terms of coming fourth.
"But it depends on the other teams and how they do as well. We have to believe we can win all our remaining games and have confidence the other sides will lose.
"We just have to keep going because there are still a lot of points to play for."
Maxi Rodriguez hit the bar for Liverpool in the first-half, while Ngog missed three chances after replacing Torres.
"It was a great performance," said Benitez. "We had great chance in the first-half and in the second-half we had a lot of chances.
"It was a silly goal to concede, but the reaction of the team was good and we were attacking and creating a lot of chances. We're disappointed because it was a good performance."

[Craig_H]

I'm not attempting to argue about anything and it's certainly not this match which sealed our fate, as you said we've been poor all season. I was just stating that Rafa made the right decision today because we didn't create much when Torres was there and Ngog offered more in the 20 minutes he was on the pitch.

Torres offered nothing because he had zero service. Once Babel came on, he was taking on defenders and creating things. Torres would've gobbled up one of those chances, especially the one where N'Gog got in behind.

Even if he's quiet, you dont take off Torres when you need a goal, because he's always liable to produce a goal, quiet game or not.

Remember Villa away? Torres was invisible til stoppage time, where he rescued us and Rafa with a winner, to earn us 2 extra points.

Rafa repays that by hauling him off. Shambolic decision and one of a man who's digging his own grave. Nobody can say that Rafa's been backed properly, but when he makes idiotic decisions, he's simply arming the critics.

He made a rod for his own back today and fully deserves to be criticised. Idiotic decision made by a stupidly stubborn man who doesnt know what's good for him.

I'll be devestated if he doesnt move on this summer, he's the biggest obstacle we face, in search of on-field success.

[Craig_H]

It surprised me when I saw him being replaced but then we had our best spell of the game and I think it justified the decision. I think the Birmingham defenders had Torres in their pocket and they couldn't cope with Ngog's movement when he came on.

If you felt it was the right decision, why did it surprise you?

Surely, given how highly you rate Rafa and his ability to make good decisions, you must've been expecting him to make the decision - considering it was apparently such a correct decision.

So why were you surprised?

We also scored while Torres was on the pitch, but nbt while N'Gog was.

What does that do to your daft logic?

[Shanks]

Played better when Torres went off, strange ....

Probably because Brum had a gameplan geared around him.

[Craig_H]

Unfortunately our involvement in the Europa league just might cost us fourth place.

I believe i was saying this earlier in the season and i THINK (although correct me if i am wrong) you were one of those who shouted me down on my point.

I wonder if Nando Torres would've been 'exhausted' today if we'd been knocked out of the pointless Europa League 2 rounds ago...

[bradsdad]

could it be possible that rafa is putting himself before the club...that he may think the only way of saving his own skin this season is winning a cup and give up on the title...so he saves torres for benfica????.....terrible if i am right ...feel awful even suggesting it if i am wrong.... but cant find any other logic in taking torres off

[onceared]

The whole team sat deep until the 60th minute. There was little or no service to Torres.
After the substitution our whole team went on the attack creating chance after chance.
Torres going off wasn't the catalyst for us pushing on. He WOULD have scored one of the three chances created for N'gog and I am stunned to find any reds defending what was an awful decision which will be lost in this season of awful decisions.

[Craig_H]

Look of sheer disdain on Nando's face. And who can blame him.

I think it's 50/50 whether he stays this summer or not, and i previously never even entertained the idea that he might go.

[Sconniee2]

How many of the other top 5 teams have won at Brum this year?

[Craig_H]

YouTube- Torres Gerrard reaction v Birmingham - Substituted

That footage tells it's own story. Nando was completely perplexed and clearly not injured. Gerrard's expression was even more emphatic, utter bemusement followed by a rolling of the eyes. I cant blame him.

Gerrard and Torres' patience with the manager is running out fast IMO and again, i cant blame them.

[Craig_H]

How many of the other top 5 teams have won at Brum this year?

How many of them have only won 4 away games in the league?

[Bender]

Look of sheer disdain on Nando's face. And who can blame him.

I think it's 50/50 whether he stays this summer or not, and i previously never even entertained the idea that he might go.

Torres looks well ****ed off ......