Torres: selling Alonso & Arbeloa ruined our season

[Guest]

I want him gone, but it's not going to happen. Come the start of next season I will be hoping for him to be successful and giving him time, but I am just not prepared to look at our squad and accept that Rafa is simply the victim of circumstance or that he is achieving what he should be with the players at his disposal. Him not thinking he is perfect doesn't materially change anything.

We haven't been good enough, simple. Our league table reflects that, our captain says it all the time. The buck stops at the players feet, they play for themselves.

[marcus50bucks]

We haven't been good enough, simple. Our league table reflects that, our captain says it all the time. The buck stops at the players feet, they play for themselves.

So you're blaming the players? What happened to it being a collective thing. At the end of the day they are all Rafa's players.

[marcus50bucks]

Played a part or not it's not about blaming individuals it's about how we react as a team and as a team we have been piss poor on the pitch. As far as I know, Rafa has been upfront in taking all the slack all season. Now that the dust is settling down in he's willing to reveal a bit more but there was no way he was going to throw in the towel earlier and demonstrate that side of his personality.

It's difficult not to make mistakes when the margins for error were as little as what he has faced all season, with Alonso & Arbeloa ****ing off, money being taken off his budget, injuries and the poor form of his most senior players etc ... He's never made excuses for himself though, he's carried on.

He's not just talking about mistakes this season alone though is he? He is obviously referring to his 6 years at the club.

[dww]

We haven't been good enough, simple. Our league table reflects that, our captain says it all the time. The buck stops at the players feet, they play for themselves.

Why the players and not the manager though?

I think there has to be a share of blame attached to different levels at the club. If for no other reason than he was the one to sign many of them Rafa has to take a measure of responsibility for the players and the team collectively surely?

[marcus50bucks]

Why the players and not the manager though?

I think there has to be a share of blame attached to different levels at the club. If for no other reason than he was the one to sign many of them Rafa has to take a measure of responsibility for the players and the team collectively surely?

This is my point. Too many fans quick to shift the blame on the players and act as though the boss is exempt from criticism.

[Guest]

So you're blaming the players? What happened to it being a collective thing. At the end of the day they are all Rafa's players.

As a team we haven't done well.

[marcus50bucks]

As a team we haven't done well.

And the manager is part of that team. Seriously, what is so difficult in saying that Rafa is also responsible for our poor season? At least be balanced in your views.

[Guest]

Why the players and not the manager though?

I think there has to be a share of blame attached to different levels at the club. If for no other reason than he was the one to sign many of them Rafa has to take a measure of responsibility for the players and the team collectively surely?

Rafa takes the criticism all the time, he's the one talking to the press every week. He's tried to shield the players all this time but now that you're seeing players going to the press blaming this and blaming that, it doesn't show a sense of unity no? What has happened to the famed YNWA mindset? It doesn't exist anymore, we sing it but it all sounds shallow.

[Guest]

And the manager is part of that team. Seriously, what is so difficult in saying that Rafa is also responsible for our poor season? At least be balanced in your views.

Of course he is but it's all as if it's all down to him, when it clearly isn't.

[Vermilion]

Well i think it's ****in shameful that a club like liverpool have ended up in circumstances that mean we can't compete in the transfer market, we've had regular good runs in europe too where the money is, if only we'd been bought by someone without placing all this debt on us, i feel we'd have been just fine...no need for them to have been super rich, just rich enough to buy us.

Then again, it's all about the stadium, that's more debt, which means less money for the squad, probably for a long time.

So many things make it hard for us, if only we could have extended Anfield further...that would have done, a bit at a time as we could afford it, without sacrificing the squad, but no...everything seems to be made difficult for us, and more expensive....i mean a credit crunch ffs...why the **** now...just when after all these years we decided to build a stadium, you couldn't make it up...and the choice of owners...jesus wept, why??

And to top it all...either side of our ****ed up plans..we've seen the Chavs bought by the russian...and Citeh bought by MrMoney, two clubs with not a hint of our history and fan base.. talk about a **** up.

How the hell did it happen ?

[dww]

Rafa takes the criticism all the time, he's the one talking to the press every week. He's tried to shield the players all this time but now that you're seeing players going to the press blaming this and blaming that, it doesn't show a sense of unity no? What has happened to the famed YNWA mindset? It doesn't exist anymore, we sing it but it all sounds shallow.

I'm not sure that the players aren't quite aligned with Rafa in a lot of ways. He has often stated that he needs more money for more £15m+ signings and compared our signings to the other big teams. I think most of the players comments have been fair play and most have come out in support of players taking flak (Ngog and Lucas I seem to recall at various points being the players subject to the stick from outside the squad). The only exceptions have been Riera, obviously, and a few of the comments from Benayoun around the first international break (I think - I remember being annoyed with him not exactly what he said).

I am of the opinion that Rafa is generally doing a good job in difficult circumstances but as he himself has said he has made important mistakes. I think that they are rarely the ones that his critics focus on though.

[marcus50bucks]

Of course he is but it's all as if it's all down to him, when it clearly isn't.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's all down to him. Managers get criticized up and down the country for their actions. It's part and parcel of football. You know that. At the end of the day, they buy the players, pick the team, implement tactics, make appropriate substitutions etc etc.. However, it's up to the players to try and execute the gameplan. If they don't you know as well as I do who the media will single out. I for one have been very critical of Gerrard's performances this season but he's not the sole reason for our demise. It's a collective thing.

[marcus50bucks]

I'm not sure that the players aren't quite aligned with Rafa in a lot of ways. He has often stated that he needs more money for more £15m+ signings and compared our signings to the other big teams. I think most of the players comments have been fair play and most have come out in support of players taking flak (Ngog and Lucas I seem to recall at various points being the players subject to the stick from outside the squad). The only exceptions have been Riera, obviously, and a few of the comments from Benayoun around the first international break (I think - I remember being annoyed with him not exactly what he said).

I am of the opinion that Rafa is generally doing a good job in difficult circumstances but as he himself has said he has made important mistakes. I think that they are rarely the ones that his critics focus on though.

[EwarWoo]

We haven't been good enough, simple. Our league table reflects that, our captain says it all the time. The buck stops at the players feet, they play for themselves.

Nothing to do with the guy who buys the players, motivates the players, trains the players, picks the players and gives the players their positions and tactics.

The players do have to shoulder some blame but the buck most certaionly doesn't stop with them.

[marcus50bucks]

Nothing to do with the guy who buys the players, motivates the players, trains the players, picks the players and gives the players their positions and tactics.

The players do have to shoulder some blame but the buck most certaionly doesn't stop with them.