The Liverpool Supporters Union to meet high ranking Premier League officials

[Scratch]

firstly mate i dont take great delight in any of this ... can we just establish that first

it is more of a duty to my beliefs about where the club's heading and were we're at .... at the moment

the Supporters Union considers itself the vanguard to this end and thats about as bluntly as i can put it

one other of your points i'll pick up on is

do you think they'd still be swanning around Anfield if the pressure from ourselves wasn't forthcoming ?

theres one thing knowing you might not be welcome [grumbling on forums]

theres another enforcing it

You're a supporter's group, you are not a union. You are a group of fans acting as an officially unofficial voice for all Liverpool fans, and going about it all wrong in the opinions of many.

As for whether i think they'd be swanning around, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference if they are here or not, it wouldn't change things financially off the field, in fact all the protests and la-de-dahs in my opinion detracts from the support for the players, and in my opinion it has a detrimental effect on the players as well. The only thing that will force the American's to leave is money, or lack thereof. A handful of fans chanting nasty things and putting up posters will do nothing at all...i'm pretty sure they'd be quite content to sit at home and put their feet up, it makes no difference if they are here or not.

[zimbo]

Every single supporter of another club who saw anything to do with it thought SoS made Liverpool supporters look like clowns. Even those who are broadly sympathetic.

Every one? Really? You know this how? Not sure how that works, to be honest. In fact I didn't come across a supporter of any other club who had a strong opinion either way.
Again, it just depends which side you choose to believe and for what reasons. For me, it was the first indication that Purslow wasn't all he seemed and may have had a different agenda. SOS were in a lose-lose situation with regards to publishing the minutes, given that the club were refusing to engage in discussion about them. I don't have a problem with the decision they took.

But why would anyone listen to them at the club more than any other supporters group? I understand that their purpose is different, what I don't understand is what makes them think that the club would and possibly even should treat them differently, especially as the one thing the board knows about them is that they are hostile to them and that no matter what they say they will not be able to placate them. At the end of the day they are just another supporters group from the point of view of the owners and board.

Yes, I understand that the club would sooner not have to face up to the kind of questions they are asking. And would probably prefer it if they didn't exist. But I think it's important that they distinguish themselves from a typical supporters' group. And that they continue to hold the owners accountable. Whether people think they have any impact or not is in some ways irrelevant. What's crucial is that they continue to press for honest explanations as to the club's situation. Because no-one else is.

[merlboo]

You're a supporter's group, you are not a union. You are a group of fans acting as an officially unofficial voice for all Liverpool fans, and going about it all wrong in the opinions of many.

As for whether i think they'd be swanning around, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference if they are here or not, it wouldn't change things financially off the field, in fact all the protests and la-de-dahs in my opinion detracts from the support for the players, and in my opinion it has a detrimental effect on the players as well. The only thing that will force the American's to leave is money, or lack thereof. A handful of fans chanting nasty things and putting up posters will do nothing at all...i'm pretty sure they'd be quite content to sit at home and put their feet up, it makes no difference if they are here or not.

firstly ,lets put one thing to bed here

we are what we say we are ... these are the facts

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/financial-services-authority.html

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/constitution.html

we ain't a supporters/fan club/group looking for autographs or tickets

the rest of your of your post is your opinion and your entitled to that ... it is a forum by the way ,even if i beg to differ on it

[Fierce]

You're a supporter's group, you are not a union. You are a group of fans acting as an officially unofficial voice for all Liverpool fans, and going about it all wrong in the opinions of many.

As for whether i think they'd be swanning around, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference if they are here or not, it wouldn't change things financially off the field, in fact all the protests and la-de-dahs in my opinion detracts from the support for the players, and in my opinion it has a detrimental effect on the players as well. The only thing that will force the American's to leave is money, or lack thereof. A handful of fans chanting nasty things and putting up posters will do nothing at all...i'm pretty sure they'd be quite content to sit at home and put their feet up, it makes no difference if they are here or not.

I agree that the pressures of SOS alone can't possibly force H&G out, and I have also raised an eyebrow at some of the things that SOS have been supposedly involved in; but I think that popular opinion amongst Liverpool fans, especially match goers, is swaying more positively towards the actions of SOS

I was going to say pretty much exactly what Zimbo did, so I'll just copy and paste cos I'm lazy:

they continue to hold the owners accountable. Whether people think they have any impact or not is in some ways irrelevant. What's crucial is that they continue to press for honest explanations as to the club's situation. Because no-one else is.

Couldn't agree more

As a supporters group, they cannot possibly please everyone, or even a large majority of people all the time due in no small part to the thousands upon thousands of LFC fans that take a vested interest in what happens to our club. Some will agree, some won't. Should they not do what they're doing because some people don't agree?

[dww]

Every one? Really? You know this how? Not sure how that works, to be honest. In fact I didn't come across a supporter of any other club who had a strong opinion either way.

Apologies there I accidentally edited out the bit where I said every supporter I had talked to. I admit they may have just been taking the piss.

Again, it just depends which side you choose to believe and for what reasons. For me, it was the first indication that Purslow wasn't all he seemed and may have had a different agenda. SOS were in a lose-lose situation with regards to publishing the minutes, given that the club were refusing to engage in discussion about them. I don't have a problem with the decision they took.

I can see that point of view. I'm not sure that they would have lost much by not posting the things though. The way it came out however just made everyone look bad IMO.

Yes, I understand that the club would sooner not have to face up to the kind of questions they are asking. And would probably prefer it if they didn't exist. But I think it's important that they distinguish themselves from a typical supporters' group. And that they continue to hold the owners accountable. Whether people think they have any impact or not is in some ways irrelevant. What's crucial is that they continue to press for honest explanations as to the club's situation. Because no-one else is.

How are they being held accountable, can anyone alter the position of ownership other than the banks? Has the efforts of SOS or others altered the stance of any of the people with power - the PL, FA or banks? I've said I'm supportive of their broader efforts such as talking to the PL but I don't see why the request to be dealt with differently has any legitimacy unless they can claim to represent the other organisations too.

It's a sad state of affairs that supporters are powerless but I'm afraid that at the minute that is the way it is. I'm with Neil in the sense that the only person who has interests aligned with our own and the position to do anything about it is Rafa.

[Fierce]

How are they being held accountable, can anyone alter the position of ownership other than the banks? Has the efforts of SOS or others altered the stance of any of the people with power - the PL, FA or banks? I've said I'm supportive of their broader efforts such as talking to the PL but I don't see why the request to be dealt with differently has any legitimacy unless they can claim to represent the other organisations too.

It's a sad state of affairs that supporters are powerless but I'm afraid that at the minute that is the way it is.

Perhaps 'being held accountable' isn't the choicest of phrases

I don't think anyone, perhaps not even SOS themselves, believe that a group of supporters with no financial muscle can genuinely alter the position of ownership, but then I'm not sure that is their intention.

For me, the fact is that without SOS, we wouldn't be privvy to a fair bit of information. Now whether we should be privvy is up for debate, but IMO that is what is meant by accountability.

I'm with Neil in the sense that the only person who has interests aligned with our own and the position to do anything about it is Rafa.

At LFC? I agree, I think I do. No I do.

But outside of that, and whilst I don't always agree with their methods, for me SOS have the best interests of the club at heart, most certainly aligned with our own



EDIT: Which, reading it again, you haven't implied otherwise

[dww]

I'm not saying the interests of SOS aren't aligned to the club, I'm saying they have, like the rest of us, have no power to influence anything.

[zimbo]

How are they being held accountable, can anyone alter the position of ownership other than the banks? Has the efforts of SOS or others altered the stance of any of the people with power - the PL, FA or banks? I've said I'm supportive of their broader efforts such as talking to the PL but I don't see why the request to be dealt with differently has any legitimacy unless they can claim to represent the other organisations too.

It's a sad state of affairs that supporters are powerless but I'm afraid that at the minute that is the way it is. I'm with Neil in the sense that the only person who has interests aligned with our own and the position to do anything about it is Rafa.

By making sure that Hicks and Gillett's mismanagement remains on the media agenda. With the membership levels as they are, they're always going to struggle to claim that they represent all LFC fans - in fact, despite what people repeatedly say, they don't make such a claim; they only claim to represent their members. The more people that do join, the greater the show of dissent and disgust at their handling of the club, the better chance SOS stand of having a tangible influence on the owners themselves.

I accept that ultimately H&G's decisions will be motivated by economic considerations. But by keeping the facts and figures in the public domain and by highlighting their financial chicanery, SOS are helping to foster an environment where it becomes clear to everyone that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable and will not go unchallenged. Personally, I think that's a positive thing.

I'm not convinced that supporters are powerless. There's plenty of examples where organised supporters' groups have had significant influence in the affairs of their club. To name just a few:

West Ham - supporters campaigned against a proposed season ticket bond and got it abandoned (some time in the 90's),
Man City - Peter Swales said that it was the fans that forced him out and got Francis Lee appointed,
Man United - instrumental in opposing the Murdoch takeover, irrespective of their current campaign.

Also the latest Labour manifesto supported the principle of supporters' trusts having a stake in the running of clubs.

It's easy to think that we have no power. The reality is that, in the right circumstances, that isn't always the case. But to have any impact, there needs to be unity, commitment and organisation. And for those who share broadly similar aims and objectives to choose which side they're on (because, like it or not, I think that's what now needs to happen).

[Fierce]

Hence my edit

Influence a sale? No, course not

No power to influence anything at all is a bit strong though.
I'm not sure how many of us outside of SOS have, or could have held meetings with senior LFC officials with regards to the ongoing saga (poor example perhaps, the results of which might well be viewed as negative) regardless of what the outcome of those meetings is.

Marches, protests, whatever it may be, however futile or insignificant to those not participating is surely, surely better than nothing?

EDIT: ****s sake. I should just wait until Zimbo posts and put a after it

[dww]

Not sure about the West Ham case but in general fan protests require some other interest which could be hit (i.e. Sky's rights and revenue streams in the Murdoch case) or for the people involved to care about their reputation and status in the country. In this situation we have neither of those powers.

Campaigns that operate on a broader base asking government or the PL/FA to alter the rules and regulations surrounding ownership is a possible route I agree. Perhaps there is potential in that route to have some power but I really don't see short of actions that hurt the club such as boycotts etc that we do have any influence over this situation. I take your point though that there could be circumstances and issues where we could.

[dww]

Hence my edit

Influence a sale? No, course not

No power to influence anything at all is a bit strong though.
I'm not sure how many of us outside of SOS have, or could have held meetings with senior LFC officials with regards to the ongoing saga (poor example perhaps, the results of which might well be viewed as negative) regardless of what the outcome of those meetings is.

Marches, protests, whatever it may be, however futile or insignificant to those not participating is surely, surely better than nothing?

EDIT: ****s sake. I should just wait until Zimbo posts and put a after it

Fair enough - I composed my reply before your edit.

I agree that their actions can get more media attention. The problem is converting it into anything else. At the minute I see no sign of that.

It will take a hell of a lot of poor publicity for G&H to write off tens if not hundreds of millions.

[ronanm]

Fair enough - I composed my reply before your edit.

I agree that their actions can get more media attention. The problem is converting it into anything else. At the minute I see no sign of that.

It will take a hell of a lot of poor publicity for G&H to write off tens if not hundreds of millions.

High ranking officials, union etc. The sound like a bunch of left wing troublemakers, representing a tiny number of fans yet harping on like they have more support thant they do.

[merlboo]

High ranking officials, union etc. The sound like a bunch of left wing troublemakers, representing a tiny number of fans yet harping on like they have more support thant they do.

It's akin to shareholders who turn up at an AGM to object against something and think their votes actually matter. SOS - stop wasting your time. No one cares what supporters have to say. And don't give me "If that was everyone's attitude..."

SOS have actually done something... what have they done??????????

i can only guess as to what your see your insights into the struggle are

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/causes.htm#Failure_of_Appeasement

now what did you say you'd done ronanm

[Kenneth]

Godwin's

[Exiled_red]

I know people are using this thread to voice their opinions on SOS one way or another, I don't want to get into that, but I'm just wondering what are you hoping / expecting to get out of this meeting?