The Old OOT Debate (sorry)

[Djimi Cruyff]

There's good and bad fans everywhere.But I have to say living in Ireland most Liverpool fans I know are complete whoppers.

[red n white]

My point is, essentially, any argument for OOTs being more this or less that is idiotic because every person's circumstances is unique in a way that belonging to some category ignores, and it succeeds only in causing bitterness and division.

Spot on, mate. I hate the term because it completely ignores the personal circumstances of the individual fellow supporters.

[Craig_H]

it's not though is it?

I used to be lucky enough to have a boss that would let me stay on the phone all morning hitting redial. I would always get tickets but it could take several hours. That was about 15 years ago. Then the PTS came out and it was a similar situation only quicker. But out of the 4 of us that used to go to games it was only me that was able to do the calling as one of my mates was a brickie, the other a roofer and another a factory worker plus lizzie would sometimes come and she was a call girl.

Now, I doubt very much if my current boss would allow me time to try for hours either online or by phone.

So it can be relatively easy but it depends on your work situation for one. You shouldn't assume just because you have no problems its the same for everyone.

I also used to go to away games in the Liverpool end, haven't managed to get a ticket for years now. As for a cup final, I'm 34 and haven't even been close.

Each to their own, but i think it's easy. You dont need to use the phone, just get online at the right time. If you're in a situation where you cant get online at the time of sale for every single game, then yeah it'll be a struggle. But between phone, internet and postal application, surely there's a way for everyone?

If you want a ticket for home games and cant get one, let me know and 90% of the time, i will be able to sort you out.

[Mostar]

Liverpool identity is undoubtedly inseparable from the club, I agree, but if you live in MK you're an OOT too, even if you just moved there from off Breck road last week. So it's a stupid way of looking at things, it completely ignores the fact that people's backgrounds and ties to the club are just a tad more complicated than what their postcode happens to be, and you can't just neatly chuck every Liverpool fan into one of two distinct categories. More to the point, I don't see why anyone would feel the need to...

I couldn't agree more.

The whole thread is very much pointless discussion..

Does it really matter if you are a local lad or OOT? Of course not.

Only unsecured and ignorant bunch would be concerned about these insignificant details.

Who cares... There is no right or wrong here.

At the end of day we are all connected to the same common denominator and let's just leave it to that.

[Father Ted]

Ah, you can come and play for the club whether you're from Spain or Outer Mongolia, but God forbid an OOT watching these said OOT players.

Maybe no players who were born outside Liverpool City boundaries should be able to play for the club, no OOT full stop.

But hey don't let the flaw in the OOT argument stop the idiots getting on their high horses eh.

[el matador]

I think this argument has to be ended and pretty soon.

Liverpool fans come from all over the world and not just merseyside and they all have a right to love and support the club as they wish. Just because a fan might not have know about the legends or the history of the club in minute detail doesnt make them any less of a supporter.

Hillsborough is etched in the minds of supporters who lived through it and experienced it first hand. to the next generations - the younger liverpool fans it is a tragedy that happened in the past history of club and is something that some of them cannot relate to.

I dont want to sound like a heretic here but for some fans its like Heysel, it was still a disaster and many of our brothers and sisters lost their lives. Its no less of a tragedy than hillsborough but if you live through something then your perceptions are different and its relevance to you is too.

The Sun thing is partly the failure of older liverpool supporters who arent telling the younger generations of the significance of the this paper and how much hurt and anger it caused to the families of those that passed away, those who were injured, the fans and the club.

If older liverpool fans are reading this paper then there's absolutely no excuse but you always have ignorant fans at any club. You cant legislate for that.

Liverpool FC is a global institution and we need to move on.

[Redspin]

I agree with this mate. There are as many local fans who don't have that great a knowledge of the club. Just say they support them.

It doesn't matter too much if your an OOT or local to be honest but I do have the belief that there is a slight bit more in the passion of proper local fans to proper OOT fans in the fact that the club not only represents who they support but it also represents their identity in relation to the city they are from. Not to say OOTs are lesser fans, more that I believe the club has a bit more meaning for locals.

I hope what I'm trying to get at comes across ok.

Speaking as a Scouser who's lived down south for years, I'm not sure I can agree that the club has more meaning for locals.

The fans I know down here - and it is a fact that the overwhelming majority of our fans are OOTs - are every bit as passionate as any native born Scouser.

Personally I'm proud to support a club with such utterly massive national and international support and I'm certain from my own experience over many years that our club means as much to these fine people as it does to born and bred Scousers like myself

[Shaggy]

Reece:

GREAT avatar. Our American pop genius.

He is the world's pop genius. The genius.

[CJ]

the thing is the club earns most of its money becuase of ooters

so cant live without them no matter what peoples views are .

[Charly]

I think it depends. Last time I got tickets for the main stand, it seemed i was in with a lot of local old timers, who were season ticket holders, and they were all really grumpy and didnt sing. A few were shouting abuse at our own players. Perhaps that makes them more passionate, but not better.

Its probably an age thing. As people get older, they become disillusioned, and miserable. Perhaps we should ban anyone over 40.

[Fernandinho]

I heard all the local supporters are dumb and all the OOT fans are cooler and better looking...

[SB]

I think it depends. Last time I got tickets for the main stand, it seemed i was in with a lot of local old timers, who were season ticket holders, and they were all really grumpy and didnt sing. A few were shouting abuse at our own players. Perhaps that makes them more passionate, but not better.

Its probably an age thing. As people get older, they become disillusioned, and miserable. Perhaps we should ban anyone over 40.

I'm an OOTer and over 40 and I rock

So settle down youngen

[Fernandinho]

I'm an OOTer and over 40 and I rock

So settle down youngen

I like the idea of banning over 40s

[Redspin]

I think it depends. Last time I got tickets for the main stand, it seemed i was in with a lot of local old timers, who were season ticket holders, and they were all really grumpy and didnt sing. A few were shouting abuse at our own players. Perhaps that makes them more passionate, but not better.

Its probably an age thing. As people get older, they become disillusioned, and miserable. Perhaps we should ban anyone over 40.

A grumpy old-timer (and honorary OOT)writes: I'm still always surprised when somebody else comments on people in the stands not singing. I can assure you that years ago (phew! nearly slipped into saying "back in the day" there) nobody ever, ever sang in the stands. You did your apprenticeship on the Kop where all those who wanted to sing did so and when you got to the point where you could afford to sit in the stands and had had enough of losing shoes and getting your shirt torn to shreds and your ribs cracked on the Kop barriers (the Kop held 26,000 back then), you moved there pronto. One thing you never did - and I'm referring to the 60s here - was sing if you were sitting in the stands. It just never happened, but it had nothing to do with disillusionment or grumpiness. It just simply wasn't done. I'm sure many people in the stands think the same now

[Charly]

A grumpy old-timer (and honorary OOT)writes: I'm still always surprised when somebody else comments on people in the stands not singing. I can assure you that years ago (phew! nearly slipped into saying "back in the day" there) nobody ever, ever sang in the stands. You did your apprenticeship on the Kop where all those who wanted to sing did so and when you got to the point where you could afford to sit in the stands and had had enough of losing shoes and getting your shirt torn to shreds and your ribs cracked on the Kop barriers (the Kop held 26,000 back then), you moved there pronto. One thing you never did - and I'm referring to the 60s here - was sing if you were sitting in the stands. It just never happened, but it had nothing to do with disillusionment or grumpiness. It just simply wasn't done. I'm sure many people in the stands think the same now

I never knew that. Its hard enough getting a ticket anyway. How many kop tickets are availablefor general purchase? I miss standing on the kop