Johnson vs. Kelly

[cream]

Anyway, we seem to have the best full-backs in the league for a change.

[RedReet]

I thought Enrique had a good game though I saw in the match thread a lot of people thought he was poor.

I thought he had a good game too, but I also thought he made a couple of mistakes and was a bit guilty of overplaying it at times (might have just been nerves on my behalf though).

No point in dwelling on the mistakes as these things happen in football, but sadly some other players aren’t afforded such luxuries.

[dww]

I think under Dalglish Johnson has generally been excellent defensively. When we have a settled centreback pairing I think it will show that he is perfect for the system we are looking to play.

[The Birdman]

For example against Chelsea yesterday, there was a man (can't recall who) back post, completely unmarked and Johnson was off tending to the same guy as Skrtel. Ball came floating over him. Completely unnecessary and simple marking skills. Of course all defenders are guilty off this at some time in their career but for me I find Johnson guilty of it more than most. Just from my experience of watching him. Also, I DO rate Johnson as a Full Back, I am just of the opinion that Kelly is better defensively and Johnson is better in attack.

I presume the player closest to Skrtel was Drogba, say Johnson hadn't tucked round, was picking up Malouda and Drogba used the space inbetween Johnson and Skrtel to score a far post header.
Posters on here (not necessarily you) will be saying that was Johnson's fault for not tucking in and giving support to Skrtel, one of the main rules in football is leave the furthest man as he is of least danger.
Either way Johnson would have been/has been blamed. Personally I thought Kuyt didn't track Malouda just like he let Terry run past him on the outside for the cross shot that Sturridge scuffed in.

In my opinion Jose Enrique has it all. He has the defensive qualities and the attacking qualities. You always feel safe with him at the back and Johnson makes me feel nervous in defence sometimes. I think it is good to have two right backs with different qualities. Some games you may want more sturdiness at the back and Kelly could provide that and other days you may want more going forward. Then there's Flanagan too of course. He seems more defensively sound than attacking, though I'm sure he'll improve on that.

Enrique's positioning and more to the point his body position was terrible for the goal. It's not the first time either, home to Man U when he had no idea Phil Jones was behind him comes to mind straight away.
As a LB he should never be closed off, facing the ball coming in from our right hand side with his left shoulder pointing straight up the pitch as he can't see behind him, if he had been on the half turn with his right shoulder pointing towards our right hand side he would have seen Sturridge and dealt with the cross.

As good as Enrique has been I still feel that he gets over praised as we've had terrible left backs for almost 20 years or so.
Johnson on the other hand is the current whipping boy who gets blamed for mostly no reason

[cream]

thought Enrique was fairly **** yesterday.

[The Birdman]

thought Enrique was fairly **** yesterday.

I haven't been as impressed with him as almost everyone else - not saying he doesn't deserve all the praise he is getting but I still think he switches off and gets lazy at times during games, maybe he knows he can recover almost any situation but I would like to see him concentrate for the whole 90 minutes.
He has been tremendous for us but when we've been reared on a diet of Dicks, Matteo, Insua, Dossena, Riise, Warnock then Enrique is going to appear world class.

There must be valid reasons he can't get into the Spain squad

[Roboklopp]

Johnson's positioning is poor at times as he can be suspect to ball watching. Recall shouting at the TV screen on a few occasions about Johnson yesterday and that happens often for me. He is capable of being good (Defensively) but I think sometimes it is a lack of concentration that holds him back. Kelly seems more composed and I think defending comes more naturally to him whereas you can tell Johnson loves to attack. Not to say Kelly hasn't had his share of mistakes but I think he is better defensively.

For example against Chelsea yesterday, there was a man (can't recall who) back post, completely unmarked and Johnson was off tending to the same guy as Skrtel. Ball came floating over him. Completely unnecessary and simple marking skills. Of course all defenders are guilty off this at some time in their career but for me I find Johnson guilty of it more than most. Just from my experience of watching him. Also, I DO rate Johnson as a Full Back, I am just of the opinion that Kelly is better defensively and Johnson is better in attack.

[Roboklopp]

I think Kelly has a more direct, powerful attacking game where he looks to knock the ball past people and 'charge' forward, I think Johnson is happier to take more touches and keep the ball under close control. I can't imagine Kelly having the composure in the final third that Johnson showed for his goal yesterday, perhaps that will come with experience.

[RedReet]

I've been trawling through google mate trying to get it, was on match of the day 2 i think good while back, sorry can't find it.

I know pundits are pundits, but IMO when Hansen,like Lee Dixon (two top defenders) are critiquing footballing defense it's usually spot on. He basically was highlighting Glen Johnson's body shape when players attacking him and his positional frailties. Was a great critique of how not to defend, and just highlighted some of the unnatural aspects of Johnson's defending in certain games.

By no means a damning critique but was very interesting IMO.

Well that’s the thing, I think I’ve seen it and that’s why I was asking because the one I seen was a good few years ago.

Since Kenny took over, as DWW mentioned Johnson has been very sound defensively. Despite not having a great start to the season as a team, we still have the joint best defence and also had a good run of back-to-back clean sheets last year. Is all this despite Johnson’s positional naivety, has he improved as a defender, or does the system suit him better? It seems as soon as Johnson has a poor game (a rarity these days), people are quick to highlight how much of a liability he is and how ‘poor his positioning’ is. It always has me wondering if people are airing these opinions based on his display, or just regurgitating some crap they heard on Sky Sports or MOTD a few years ago because it sounds good.

That’s why I have asked for practical examples, because bar the glaringly obvious mistakes, I don’t think I’m educated enough to prove one way or another if any full-backs positioning is suspect or not. I paid close attention to Johnson when watching the highlights last night and rewinded most incidents a few times. Without the full picture (knowing where others players are out of screen, knowing what Kenny expects of him) I found it very hard to decipher if he was at fault or not and if it was actually his positioning that let him down. How some fans can establish this so quickly when watching live I’ll never know.

I could go on and keep explaining why I think certain criticism on here has little substance to it, but I’m in danger of repeating previous posts of mine. Think I’ll just leave it at that until Johnson makes a high profile mistake so I can receive a barrage of ‘I told you so’s’.

[Exiled_red]

thought Enrique was fairly **** yesterday.

I think that's a bit harsh, he didn't have a bad game. He perhaps didn't play to the same level he has all season, but he's been excellent in more or less every other game and was good enough yesterday.

[danperkins]

Well that’s the thing, I think I’ve seen it and that’s why I was asking because the one I seen was a good few years ago.

Since Kenny took over, as DWW mentioned Johnson has been very sound defensively. Despite not having a great start to the season as a team, we still have the joint best defence and also had a good run of back-to-back clean sheets last year. Is all this despite Johnson’s positional naivety, has he improved as a defender, or does the system suit him better? It seems as soon as Johnson has a poor game (a rarity these days), people are quick to highlight how much of a liability he is and how ‘poor his positioning’ is. It always has me wondering if people are airing these opinions based on his display, or just regurgitating some crap they heard on Sky Sports or MOTD a few years ago because it sounds good.

That’s why I have asked for practical examples, because bar the glaringly obvious mistakes, I don’t think I’m educated enough to prove one way or another if any full-backs positioning is suspect or not. I paid close attention to Johnson when watching the highlights last night and rewinded most incidents a few times. Without the full picture (knowing where others players are out of screen, knowing what Kenny expects of him) I found it very hard to decipher if he was at fault or not and if it was actually his positioning that let him down. How some fans can establish this so quickly when watching live I’ll never know.

I could go on and keep explaining why I think certain criticism on here has little substance to it, but I’m in danger of repeating previous posts of mine. Think I’ll just leave it at that until Johnson makes a high profile mistake so I can receive a barrage of ‘I told you so’s’.

a fair post mate.

I suppose none of us are qualified to give a truly educated assessment on defensive positioning, hence why i was so interested in Hansen's assessment & i suppose we do not know what exactly any player has been asked to do by the manager.

IMO i never thought Johnson was a great defender, with Chelsea & Pompey but his attacking strengths were always quite evident. I think as regards peoples opinions, if you like a certain player you'll be quicker to praise him & if you are negative about a certain player you'll be quicker to criticise him. I think we are all guilty of that, one thing i've learned from forums is that, we as LFC supporters have seriously contrasting views & nothing wrong with that if people can express and receive them with a bit of maturity. It's like when you log on, and someone says "such and such" had great game, when you think he was awful & you can't quite see how that person has that view.

And i do think the system we play fits Johnson aswell as him playing better, so you could be right on both counts. For me, i just like what Kelly gives us as a defender first and foremost, just seems more natural for him to defend than Johnson.

It's a good complaint though and refreshing to have this type of selection problem.

[dww]

Somewhere I heard that Johnson (Guardian podcast maybe?) had something like 95% pass success rate in our half against Chelsea. For me the risks he takes when coming out of defence are one of his biggest weakness if he is improving in that regard then I think he has a reasonable case for being one of the leagues top fullbacks.

I think the setup of the team with great movement from Bellamy, Suarez, Maxi and Kuyt helped him a lot (also helped Adam IMO).

[RedReet]

That doesn’t surprise me. I said a few times that what impressed me as much as the goal was how well he contributed when passing it out of defence, especially in tight situations. I don’t feel as confident on the other side.

[Nick77]

thought Enrique was fairly **** yesterday.

Sorry but u were obviously watching a different game to everyone else - no one got passed Enrique. In fact I can't remember a real Chavski chance created from our left hand side!

[BigChief]

Right near the end Mata burst through between CB and LB (very minor position fault from Enrique). Was 5 yards ahead baring down on goal. Enrique used his turbo boosters and got in front of Mata in our area just in time. Was a joy to watch Mata cack his pants.

Overall, Enrique's ball retention was fantastic (and GJ on the other side). Apart from the little period of domination Chelsea couldn't get the ball off us. Ivanovic, Mata and Sturridge got no change out of Enrique other than the lapse in concentration for the goal.