How Standard Chartered Can Rescue Its Disastrous Deal With Liverpool F.C.

[Craig_H]

so we have no expenditure other than wages?

whatabout other staffs wages ie non footballers

the utilitiy bills

the bills it bills

the tax

and that is nowhere near all the costs we will have, lawyers accountants benifits etc etc etc

Ah, a somewhat less naive view.

[destinydude]

so we have no expenditure other than wages?

whatabout other staffs wages ie non footballers

the utilitiy bills

the bills it bills

the tax

and that is nowhere near all the costs we will have, lawyers accountants benifits etc etc etc

Marsh, I did say that we can use the rest of 60m for things like these. Tax is paid on profit. If we don't generate any profit there's no tax.

[Craig_H]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8541445.stm

Right, so that's just over £187m of turnover there - for 2008-2009.

I suspect the current figure would be considerably less. Do you have figures for that too?

And after that, what are our FULL annual outgoings? Not just wages.

Throw in a required £40m-£50m annual transfer budget too.

Marsh, I did say that we can use the rest of 60m for things like these. Tax is paid on profit. If we don't generate any profit there's no tax.

Do you know how much the rest of these costs actually are?

[destinydude]

So you're asking the fans to pay £5k each - the vast majority wont be able to afford this. And if you allow them to pay it over 3-5 years, what does the club do in the meantime, while it's waiting for this money to come in and has expenses to pay now?

I'm also interested in how you substatiate those figures you've quoted. If this was Dragon's Den, Bannatyne would've destroyed you

Yes, I do know that not everyone can afford 5k. But there are high end fans who invest more which will not burden the avg fan with 5,000. 5k was an avg estimate that I used.

Building a stadium takes 2yrs. So, you'll be rolling out money continuously to cover the costs.


Regd our Match day revenues etc, I've had a pdf sometime back regd our clubs budget breakdown. I'll try to find it in the mean time.

We have very less Corporate Hopsitality tickets right now at Anfield. They are planning to hike it to around 9,000 in the new stadium.

[destinydude]

Right, so that's just over £187m of turnover there - for 2008-2009.

I suspect the current figure would be considerably less. Do you have figures for that too?

And after that, what are our FULL annual outgoings? Not just wages.

Throw in a required £40m-£50m annual transfer budget too.



Do you know how much the rest of these costs actually are?

Our latest earnings are in the same range. I'll get a link for that too. I have followed our finances and finances in genera with great interest.

I'm not making up figures out of thin air. I've had bookmarks earlier but they got wiped out. I'll get you links in a day or so.

VAT on players transfers is around 12% as far as I know. I'm subject to correction on this bit though.

Yes we have other administrative costs, but I don't think they'll be more than 25m because we've been paying around~40m as interest over the last couple of yrs. Add a wage bill of 100m to it and you know that the remaining amount [170m - 100m- 40m = ~30m] to service those costs

[Craig_H]

Yes, I do know that not everyone can afford 5k. But there are high end fans who invest more which will not burden the avg fan with 5,000. 5k was an avg estimate that I used.

Building a stadium takes 2yrs. So, you'll be rolling out money continuously to cover the costs.


Regd our Match day revenues etc, I've had a pdf sometime back regd our clubs budget breakdown. I'll try to find it in the mean time.

We have very less Corporate Hopsitality tickets right now at Anfield. They are planning to hike it to around 9,000 in the new stadium.

I think you'd find that any building of a stadium would require proof of available funds to pay the bill, at the very least. If not a substantial downpayment. I'm not sure a promise that we'll have the money in 3-5 years based on fans fronting up with the cash (especially in a recession-hit period where job security is non-existent) would really cut the mustard.

[Craig_H]

Our latest earnings are in the same range. I'll get a link for that too. I have followed our finances and finances in genera with great interest.

I'm not making up figures out of thin air. I've had bookmarks earlier but they got wiped out. I'll get you links in a day or so.

I'm not saying you're making up figures from thin air. I'm equally unconvinced at how set in stone these figures are, in terms of accuracy.

In general terms too, if fan ownership was such a successful model, you'd possibly expect it to not be so exceptionally rare.

[CJ]

Marsh, I did say that we can use the rest of 60m for things like these. Tax is paid on profit. If we don't generate any profit there's no tax.

i would imagine there still is tax.

[destinydude]

I'm not saying you're making up figures from thin air. I'm equally unconvinced at how set in stone these figures are, in terms of accuracy.

In general terms too, if fan ownership was such a successful model, you'd possibly expect it to not be so exceptionally rare.

Craig, most of the German clubs are majority fan owned. We could still get enough from the fans for say 65% of the ownership at the least. Yes we are in a dire financial period but in a couple of yrs it's going to change and that's why I said in about 3-5 yrs we can achieve that target amount.

Every year Deloitte does a "Deloitte Football Money league" article which shows the exact breakdown of the revenues of the top 10-15 earning clubs in Europe.

[destinydude]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

Go to the end of the page and you get links for the latest years accounts and th eyears before that

[Craig_H]

Craig, most of the German clubs are majority fan owned. We could still get enough from the fans for say 65% of the ownership at the least. Yes we are in a dire financial period but in a couple of yrs it's going to change and that's why I said in about 3-5 yrs we can achieve that target amount.

Every year Deloitte does a "Deloitte Football Money league" article which shows the exact breakdown of the revenues of the top 10-15 earning clubs in Europe.

Most of the German clubs make practically zero impact on top European honours lists and most German clubs arent trying to fund an ability to compete at the top end of the Premier League, which requires bigger transfer fees and higher wage bills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitt...l_Money_League

Go to the end of the page and you get links for the latest years accounts and th eyears before that

It only has figures for 2008-2009, not anything more recent.

[Roboklopp]

We shouldve gone for a big rights issue with the fans and sold stadium rights along with the Moores ownership and the massively improved commercial model we've seen since though. That wouldve been viable financially if orchestrated correctly.

[destinydude]

i would imagine there still is tax.

May be other taxes but not "Income Tax" because Income Tax for businesses is calculated only after they deduct their costs from their revenues.

If the Revenues-Costs = Profit and only when you generate a profit, you pay income tax.

I dont know how it's in the UK. There could be other taxes like Entertainment tax or what not.

[Craig_H]

May be other taxes but not "Income Tax" because Income Tax for businesses is calculated only after they deduct their costs from their revenues.

If the Revenues-Costs = Profit and only when you generate a profit, you pay income tax.

I dont know how it's in the UK. There could be other taxes like Entertainment tax or what not.

It's Corporation Tax mate.

[destinydude]

Most of the German clubs make practically zero impact on top European honours lists and most German clubs arent trying to fund an ability to compete at the top end of the Premier League, which requires bigger transfer fees and higher wage bills.

It only has figures for 2008-2009, not anything more recent.

That is not because they are fan owned but because, their tickets cost much much less than what it costs for an avg English fan. I can get a link for this too. The avg English fan pays twice of what an avg German fan pays for a match day ticket. Their TV deals are very less too.

Bayern rack the money in and have been in the UCL fairly consistently.