Pack your bags Roy

[Lecter]

I know it's congested and compressed, but that's where you combine bodies in the box, with a high tempo of play, and quick movement of the ball, and then the congestion seems a far less difficult barrier to overcome.

If a side has good numbers forward, and they're attacking with a high tempo and intensity, thus putting immense pressure on the opposition, the opposition defenders will struggle to retain their composure and will panic - leading to more mistakes and more chance to score.

But again Cragi the high tempo and intensity has to come also from your attacking players

We never saw that from Voronin ever and Babel and Riera are enigmas at best

I agree with your senitments on the situation just not that we had the personnel

As I said earlier if we had someone like Garcia then yes I would be all for it but not those 3 they are ****e

[danperkins]

I totally disagree with that, i think coming into yesterday's game and facing a Chelsea side without Drogba, Essien and Lampard, meant that our starting XI wasnt at all inferior to their's.

Chelsea's backline:

Ivanovic - Terry - Alex - Cole

Our backline:

Kelly - Carra - Skrtel - The Konch

Chelsea's Midfield:

Ramires - Mikel - Zhirkov

Our Midfield:

Merieles - Lucas - Gerrard - Maxi

Their Forward line:

Kalou - Anelka - Malouda

Our Forward line:

Kuyt - Torres


Chelsea Subs: Drogba - Sturridge - Boswinga

Our Subs: Shelvey - Ngog - Spearing

-------------

All in all i'd say their squad on the day was much superior to ours, especially the backline and their subs. Midfield was the only position i thought we were stronger than them in that Chelsea formation (Sky produced)

[Craig_H]

Chelsea's backline:

Ivanovic - Terry - Alex - Cole

Our backline:

Kelly - Carra - Skrtel - The Konch

Chelsea's Midfield:

Ramires - Mikel - Zhirkov

Our Midfield:

Merieles - Lucas - Gerrard - Maxi

Their Forward line:

Kalou - Anelka - Malouda

Our Forward line: Kuyt - Torres

Chelsea Subs: Drogba - Sturridge - Boswinga

Our Subs: Shelvey - Ngog - Spearing

-------------

All in all i'd say their squad on the day was much superior to ours, especially the backline and their subs.

Two things....

1stly, 'player v player' type of comparisons are ever so slightly demented.

2ndly, try reading it carefully:

I totally disagree with that, i think coming into yesterday's game and facing a Chelsea side without Drogba, Essien and Lampard, meant that our starting XI wasnt at all inferior to their's.

[danperkins]

Two things....

1stly, 'player v player' type of comparisons are ever so slightly demented.

2ndly, try reading it carefully:

And our starting 11 "WAS" inferior to theirs on paper and on form. Look at their backline and forward line for christ sake, and consider the form these players are in!! Name a better backline in the world?

[Craig_H]

But again Cragi the high tempo and intensity has to come also from your attacking players

We never saw that from Voronin ever and Babel and Riera are enigmas at best

I agree with your senitments on the situation just not that we had the personnel

As I said earlier if we had someone like Garcia then yes I would be all for it but not those 3 they are ****e

Ok Lec, so you think that a team's chances of scoring or creating a chance are identical, with Babel or Voronin operating in and around the opposition goal, as they are with Mascherano 50 yards from goal?

That's clearly nonsense.

[5europeancups]

I will give Roy credit when it his tactic that win us games and not some fantastic moments from our players.

Roy used the same old tactic. The difference now is that Torres are more match fit and scored a couple of crackers.

As many already pointed out. We are now back to playing Houllier tactics when we need fantastic moments from our star players to get out of jail.

I dont think Roy did use the same old tactics.

i think he played two up fron for a change.

there was clearly a 442 today, although the second half felt like 10 -0-0 most of the time...

[Lecter]

Of course he missed sitters, everyone does. The point is though, sitters came his way - and by their very nature, sitters are more often converted than missed.

So that in itself backs up my suggestion that putting more threatening/attacking players into the danger areas is more likely to result in chances to score.

Err no it doesnt really because how many times did we actually start with Torres & Keane upfront together

Those chances might have come in games we won where we only played one upfront

Without looking at who came on in what game and what impact they had when they came on then frankly you cant comprehensively prove anything

[Lecter]

I dont think Roy did use the same old tactics.

i think he played two up fron for a change.

there was clearly a 442 today, although the second half felt like 10 -0-0 most of the time...

He used 4-4-2 against City and has done it in a couple of other games

Yesterday it worked other times it hasnt

[Craig_H]

And our starting 11 "WAS" inferior to theirs on paper. Look at their backline and forward line for christ sake, and consider the form these players are in!!

I looked at this comment:

ll in all i'd say their squad on the day was much superior to ours, especially the backline and their subs.

I dont think their first XI was especially better than ours on the day. Their fullbacks probably were, the CBs a much of a muchness. Our midfield was definitely stronger, as was our strikeforce.

And again, as i said, player v player comparisons are about as meaningful as that cheese sandwich i mentioned earlier.

If you think their midfield of Mikel, Zhirkov and Ramires, is better than ours of Lucas, Meireles and Gerrard, then fair enough.

You also think that Kyrgiakos is a ****ebag, a decent signing and a **** player, though a decent buy, while at the same time being not a good signing.

So you'll forgive me for not worrying that your opinions and mine differ. It's something of a relief.

[Fredo]

I hear ya mate but then he did buy Aquilani and spend so much money on Johnson, so i can't accept that our problems came form things outside of his control. Rafa and the players underperformed, and in the end the manager takes the responsibility for players he signed and the match results, just as Roy has.

I am not a massive fan of Glen Johnson but I think it was the 'right' signing. He offers our team width, especially in Rafa's system. As for Aquilani, all things considered, yes it was probably a mistake (he wasn't fit enough until 6 months into the season) but then again, with the money he had available, concessions had to be made. I don't doubt Aquilani's talent, especially when you consider we've swapped him for the brilliant & fit Poulsen.

[Lecter]

Ok Lec, so you think that a team's chances of scoring or creating a chance are identical, with Babel or Voronin operating in and around the opposition goal, as they are with Mascherano 50 yards from goal?

That's clearly nonsense.

Depends who you are playing

As I said earlier I dont disagree with the sentiment in your argument what I do disagree with is the effectiveness of Babel, Voronin and Riera

[Craig_H]

Err no it doesnt really because how many times did we actually start with Torres & Keane upfront together

Those chances might have come in games we won where we only played one upfront

Without looking at who came on in what game and what impact they had when they came on then frankly you cant comprehensively prove anything

Based on this debate, i could shove your hand into a bowlful of water and you'd still deny that it had got wet.

I dont know anyone in the world who would deny that, by putting more players in dangerous areas while you're attacking, you'd normally increase your chances of getting goals/chances. Except you, of course.

And woe betide anyone who dares argue. Even if they do it en-masse and as the vast majority.

[Craig_H]

Depends who you are playing

As I said earlier I dont disagree with the sentiment in your argument what I do disagree with is the effectiveness of Babel, Voronin and Riera

Babel/Voronin/Riera in dangerous advanced position, are more effective in terms of creating/scoring goals, than Mascherano on the halfway line, is.

[Lecter]

Based on this debate, i could shove your hand into a bowlful of water and you'd still deny that it had got wet.

I dont know anyone in the world who would deny that, by putting more players in dangerous areas while you're attacking, you'd normally increase your chances of getting goals/chances. Except you, of course.

And woe betide anyone who dares argue. Even if they do it en-masse and as the vast majority.

I might have been wearing gloves

As I said I appreciate and agree with the sentiment but the players we had to go into those positions were ****ing ****e and I'd question how effective it would have actually been

[Craig_H]

I might have been wearing gloves

As I said I appreciate and agree with the sentiment but the players we had to go into those positions were ****ing ****e and I'd question how effective it would have actually been

See post 3253

And rafa's belief was always in the system, almost regardless of the personnel. So even if we'd had people who werent '****ing ****e' on the bench, if rafa was taking off a DM, he'd put another one on in his place.

You agree with the sentiment, but didnt rate the players we had as options - i dont think rafa even necessarily agreed with the sentiment.