Pack your bags Roy

[Neil Young]

I think what Rafa is trying to say here with his milk in a bottle comment is that CP is looking at things too simply and making assumptions. Hence the change in the medical team whom CP assume would cure all the team injuries, buying players from what he heard from that would make the team better.......etc when in fact he needs to analyse deeper to find the true cause or what is the white liquid in the bottle.

It's a Spanish expression apparently. I'd say our nearest equivalent is "if it looks like **** and smells like ****, it probably is ****."

So basically, if the club got in a mess on the playing side after we finished second, it's to do with what changed at that point. Purslow.

[Vermilion]

Come on NESV, now would be the perfect time to sack Hodgson, get in under the radar so to speak...they're all so focused on 'Roon the loon' they'll take much less notice of the sacking...er...i mean..."mutual understanding between Roy and the club to part company" .

[SRR]

It's a Spanish expression apparently. I'd say our nearest equivalent is "if it looks like **** and smells like ****, it probably is ****."

So basically, if the club got in a mess on the playing side after we finished second, it's to do with what changed at that point. Purslow.

[Fivex]

Hmmm....

Andrew_Heaton Andy Heaton
by JimBoardman

Hodgson has previous with Fenway Sports Group,he was manager at Fulham when they signed a marketing deal with them and met the FSG top brass

[spanky]

Come on NESV, now would be the perfect time to sack Hodgson, get in under the radar so to speak...they're all so focused on 'Roon the loon' they'll take much less notice of the sacking...er...i mean..."mutual understanding between Roy and the club to part company" .

100% agree. You could have a new manager installed and on the training pitch before sky wiped their tear filled eyes.

[Rich]

Changes nothing - they'd wont tolerate his performance levels for much longer.

[dww]

Purslow obviously was talking and in cahoots with Carragher/Gerrard.

It stinks. I'd ditch all three.

To be honest I just want a hierarchy which is strong enough to ignore the players. Everyone knows that player power is a problem rather than a strength in most situations. I can't help feeling that Roy believing in putting players in the positions where they feel they are best is part of his problem. He lacks the clarity of vision and single mindedness of someone like Rafa and the difference shows out on the pitch in confused and seemingly patchwork tactics.

[Rich]

To be honest I just want a hierarchy which is strong enough to ignore the players. Everyone knows that player power is a problem rather than a strength in most situations. I can't help feeling that Roy believing in putting players in the positions where they feel they are best is part of his problem. He lacks the clarity of vision and single mindedness of someone like Rafa and the difference shows out on the pitch in confused and seemingly patchwork tactics.

Oh I agree but I can't see anything changing on that side if Purslow is in charge. He obviously likes to be pally with the senior players.

[Arn]

Oh I agree but I can't see anything changing on that side if Purslow is in charge. He obviously likes to be pally with the senior players.

I doubt that NESV will keep Purslow. They won't care that he voted against G&H. They will look at what he achieved at the club, transfer deals etc...

The Aquilani free loan, Insua free loan, Konchesky £5m, Poulsen £6m for example.

[kris90210]

Good post mate and If most people agree with me that Rafa's transfer record was poor over the last few years well then thats me satisfied mate that was my original point

As regards some other points:

I read that too about apparently wanting Jovetic aswell:
===================================
"Rafa revealed in a conversation with someone that he tried to sign both Aquilani and Jovetic with the transfer budget he was supposed to have plus the sale of Alonso. But ultimately, Aquilani was prioritised since Liverpool needed someone to directly replace Alonso, and no extra money was given to top up the money received from Alonso's sale."
===================================
Firstly who was this someone? Secondly, its all well and good for him saying this after the player has bombed? And finally who wouldn't want Jovetic!!! He is class and one of the most sought after talents in club football?

You say mitigating circumstances, so you don't think those transfers need to be justified? At the end of the day every manager wants players, that 99% of the time they cannot and will not get, happens to every manager and every club at some point. Fergie wanted Benzema didn't get him, Barca wanted Torres & Cesc didn't get them, Chelsea wanted Kaka didn't get him, Man City wanted... well everyone in the world. And this happens every transfer window.

At the end of the day Rafa wanted rid of Alonso, he got his wish. The talks were so long and drawn out with Madrid that options dwindled in the transfer market so Rafa bought Aquilani. A currently injured player, trying to make the transition from Serie A to the rough n' tumble and high tempo of the Premier League, in which it is notoriously difficult to adjust to. It was a massive risk buying an injured player when we needed someone right away to step into the midfield. We were hoping that we could keep touch with top 4 until Aqua was fit and then slot him in. But we couldn't, and the Lucas/Masch partnership didn't work and stifled any sort of creativity in the middle of the park, hence one of the main reasons why we couldn't break teams down.

So instead of having the cog that was Alonso to connect the midfield to our front line we had Lucas,Mascherano and an injured Alberto Aquilani. It was a massive risk and it failed miserably. IMO the Aquilani signing was the final nail in Rafa's coffin, one bad signing too many, Rafa needed to get that signing spot on after forcing Alonso out,he didn't and we paid for it. Sure its tough having that much pressure to sign specific players that have to be a success, but hey its the highest level of football.

Its pretty much black and white and simplistic, we needed an "uninjured" player than could slot in straight away and replace Alonso who was vital/crucial to our team, and with the purchase of Aqua we didn't have that in any way, shape of form.

So Aqua gets fit, he isn't played. He starts talking to the media wondering why Rafa isn't playing him. We are all baffled to why Rafa isn't playing him, Rafa talks to the media and says the reason he isn't playing him in certain games likes of Blackburn, as they "are too physical" So why the hell did we buy a player that firstly, is currently injured, secondly is proven to be very injury prone and thirdly won't be played in any of the physical games? Its the premier league most of the games are physical!?

Alonso and Aquilani were completely different players mate, not the same at all, Riise said this about Aqua.
===================================
“He is different to Alonso but he is the sort of player who can break teams down.

“What are his qualities? He is a very good passer of the ball; he runs a lot; finds space everywhere and he likes to get in the box to score goals.

“As well as that he has a good shot, and he is a smart player. When he settles into the English way of playing he will be very good.
===================================

Alonso has "none of these qualities," listed above by Riise who played with both of these players, they literally are entirely different footballers. Rafa worked off a rigid system, Alonso was vital in that rigid system. Take Alonso out of it and replace him with a completely different player and **** hits the fan. We broke down in midfield, looked disjointed and frankly didn't know what to do.

Aquilani is an attacking midfielder, he offered movement and short,sharp passing. Alonso is a deep lying midfielder who offered a wide range of passing, a creative spark and worked like a cog to keep the ball moving at all times, but who could also get a tackle in and defend too. Aqua could not do any of this. There are only a few players like this around who can play ball but also get stuck in and do the nitty gritty stuff e.g Essien,Sweinstiger etc , their about as rare as a footballing CB.

Truly baffling stuff that signing IMO and in many other peoples opinions. And its been truly done to death, but sure if its balanced debate no harm in talking about it, sure we might aswell discuss it as there's hardly anything currently on the pitch worth talking about

P.S. Apologies for the long winded post, don't want anyone to think i'm trying to emulate Paul Tomkins or anything

Christ Dan. Long winded is an understatement. Ok, here goes:

You're absolutely right when you make your points about other managers being after certain players and them falling through. It's the nature of the game. My point was that Rafa identified those players and we were unlucky (certainly with some) that they didn't come off. Rafa CAN identify excellent players, but was being forced to settle for second or third best most of the time. This is why many of us would have loved to have seen how he would have done with a decent budget and freedom in the transfer market.

In fairness to Rafa, Alonso was poor the season when we were looking at Gareth Barry. This is evidenced by the fact that Juventus opted to sign Christian Poulsen over him!! No one would meet his £18 million price tag. Arsenal offered £12 million if I remember correctly. Of course, we all know what happened next. Xabi sorted himself out and proved himself to be one of the most gifted players on the planet. The handling of that situation was a real shame. But we got excellent service from Xabi and three times the money we paid for him. Gerrard also said in his autobiography that Alonso always said he wanted there to be another chapter in his career after Liverpool.

Aquilani was a **** up. I'm not going to argue that point with you. Rafa has said so himself. He was given bad medical advice and didn't think he would be out for as long as he was. You think it was a **** up, I think it was a **** up, Rafa thinks it was a **** up. It was a **** up! But a sackable offence? No, not in light of his achievments. Rafa had one bad season at Liverpool. Every season prior to that, it felt like we were moving forwards.

Final point, just to be pedantic. Alonso's position was that of a deep lying midfielder but his role was essentially to act as a playmaker. Rafa said at the time that Aquilani was brought in to replace him, but that he played further forwards. We were all crying out for attacking football and that is what he tried to give us. Oh and to be ultra pedantic. You sure Xabi Alonso has NONE of the attributes that Riise attributed to Aquilani?

Anyway, posts like this tend to go round and round in circles. I suspect I'm not going to change your opinion. And you're not going to change mine I'm afraid. So that's my tuppence worth on this subject!

[danperkins]

Christ Dan. Long winded is an understatement. Ok, here goes:

You're absolutely right when you make your points about other managers being after certain players and them falling through. It's the nature of the game. My point was that Rafa identified those players and we were unlucky (certainly with some) that they didn't come off. Rafa CAN identify excellent players, but was being forced to settle for second or third best most of the time. This is why many of us would have loved to have seen how he would have done with a decent budget and freedom in the transfer market.

In fairness to Rafa, Alonso was poor the season when we were looking at Gareth Barry. This is evidenced by the fact that Juventus opted to sign Christian Poulsen over him!! No one would meet his £18 million price tag. Arsenal offered £12 million if I remember correctly. Of course, we all know what happened next. Xabi sorted himself out and proved himself to be one of the most gifted players on the planet. The handling of that situation was a real shame. But we got excellent service from Xabi and three times the money we paid for him. Gerrard also said in his autobiography that Alonso always said he wanted there to be another chapter in his career after Liverpool.

Aquilani was a **** up. I'm not going to argue that point with you. Rafa has said so himself. He was given bad medical advice and didn't think he would be out for as long as he was. You think it was a **** up, I think it was a **** up, Rafa thinks it was a **** up. It was a **** up! But a sackable offence? No, not in light of his achievments. Rafa had one bad season at Liverpool. Every season prior to that, it felt like we were moving forwards.

Final point, just to be pedantic. Alonso's position was that of a deep lying midfielder but his role was essentially to act as a playmaker. Rafa said at the time that Aquilani was brought in to replace him, but that he played further forwards. We were all crying out for attacking football and that is what he tried to give us. Oh and to be ultra pedantic. You sure Xabi Alonso has NONE of the attributes that Riise attributed to Aquilani?

Anyway, posts like this tend to go round and round in circles. I suspect I'm not going to change your opinion. And you're not going to change mine I'm afraid. So that's my tuppence worth on this subject!

Lot of fair points even if we disagree on certain things

[Ben_Itez]

Purslow obviously was talking and in cahoots with Carragher/Gerrard.

It stinks. I'd ditch all three.

It's certainly starting to look that way.

Anyone else think it was slightly suspicious how Carra signed his new, no doubt lucrative, contract literally hours before the takeover was completed? Very strange timing. Maybe it was just opportunism....he knows Roy and Purslow would give him a nice fat 2 year contract but knew new owners and manager wouldnt necessarily think the same.

I've been thinking about this for a few days now along with the deafening silence from the pair of them re Raf's departure and i can't help but come to the conclusion that Carra and Gerrard were very much integral in removing Rafa from his job. Thanks very much boys.

To be honest I just want a hierarchy which is strong enough to ignore the players. Everyone knows that player power is a problem rather than a strength in most situations. I can't help feeling that Roy believing in putting players in the positions where they feel they are best is part of his problem. He lacks the clarity of vision and single mindedness of someone like Rafa and the difference shows out on the pitch in confused and seemingly patchwork tactics.

Hopefully NESV have their eyes wide open and surprise us with their appointments. I doubt they can do any worse than Roy and a non interfering CEO on football matters would be a start.

[Big-Red-Ed]

These guys love their stats. They will be number crunching as we speak and seeking advice from left, right and centre. There will be no knee jerk reactions but ultimately Roy's "stats" will be his downfall because whatever way you analyse Roy's career, he is no more than a sticking plaster manager and he is even failing at that here.

[G]

Twitter:-

LFC Globe
Roy Hodgson has not been sacked, contrary to rumours. However, a meeting has taken place between Henry and Werner regarding the situation.

[Leyton388]

Henry and Werner will know that it needs changing and i am hopeful they act quickly. We cannot afford to give him 2 more games as we are in free fall.

This is a very rare position for us to be in and the finger is pointed directly at Hodgson and his **** small club tactics.

I f we get the right man in i am convinced our performance will improve overnight.