Wigan

[Lecter]

It's hyperbole IMO. He's obviously no Maldini and he obviously has weaknesses, but it's blown way, way out of proportion. If he was as bad as some like to try and make out, Capello wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. Ask yourself how many goals Johnson's so-called wank defending has cost us - the answer is not very many. Not very many at all.

Is it really hyperbole?

Nope, Arbeloa was a better defender than him and he was no great shakes

As for Capello picking players - flmao is that the best you can do to justify him?

Name me another English rightback?

There aint many, Richards looked promising but has regressed so its not like their is a glut of class fullbacks and Johnson is top of the pile hes the best of an extremely bad bunch

As for goals that are his fault there have been loads of times both this season and last season that attackers have got inside him and caused problems and probably goals

I was exactly the same regarding Riise as I am with Johnson both good going forward and their abilities doing that (or wonder goals in Riises' case) mask their major deficiencies defensively

Johnson is an appalling fullback in defensive terms, good going forward but woeful at defending

[Lecter]

Have to say i've always thought Johnson was dodgy defensively, was ****ing staggered when we paid £17mil for him.

He soon won me over but even when he was tearing it up down the right flank, he was still getting caught out far too frequently defensively and this season, he's just been in horrific form. Even the biggest Glen Johnson fan would have to admit that.

It's not that he's totally ****, obviously he's a great asset for Liverpool and England when he's at his best but he needs to get his head sorted and start focusing during matches.

Even when hes been good going forward hes looked poor defensively

Its just people forgive him his defensive lapses when they see an attack and or an assist etc..

Kelly is a better defender than Johnson yes Kelly the 20 year old inexperienced fullback who some are accusing of being out of position etc.. at the weekend

[elrichio86]

Have to say i've always thought Johnson was dodgy defensively, was ****ing staggered when we paid £17mil for him.

He soon won me over but even when he was tearing it up down the right flank, he was still getting caught out far too frequently defensively and this season, he's just been in horrific form. Even the biggest Glen Johnson fan would have to admit that.

It's not that he's totally ****, obviously he's a great asset for Liverpool and England when he's at his best but he needs to get his head sorted and start focusing during matches.

Do those two not go hand in hand?

Johnson is an attacking fullback. And because of this there are going to be times when he is upfield, the attack breaks down and he is caught out of position. If you play an attacking fullback it is a given he will be caught out occaisionally. This is where your DM should be filling in that space when needed (something Masch was very good at).

Either you get a defensive fullback and lose the attacking option (e.g. Arbeloa) or you play an attacking fullback who gets caught out defensively. You can have both.

For years we'd been complaining about our lack of threats from fullback. We then get an attacking fullback and he just gets complaints defensively. Fickle?

[Shaggy]

Is it really hyperbole?

Yes, I think it is. That's why I said that.

As for Capello picking players - flmao is that the best you can do to justify him?

Name me another English rightback?

No it's not "the best I can do". It's just an example. He's famously hot on defending and I couldn't care less about the dearth of right backs. He simply wouldn't pick him if he was the liability some make him out to be.

There are other capable English right backs. Onuoha is a good player, Micah Richards, Steven Taylor can play there, Luke Young's been called up before, the boy Bardsley is playing every week for Sunderland and by all accounts doing well, Jagielka can play there. If Johnson really was as bad as some try to have us believe (i.e. a liability), then all of those Premier League regulars would be preferred.

As for goals that are his fault there have been loads of times both this season and last season that attackers have got inside him and caused problems and probably goals

"Probably"?

Can't you provide examples? I suspect not because he hasn't cost us many goals at all in the 18 months he's been with us.

[Shaggy]

Do those two not go hand in hand?

Johnson is an attacking fullback. And because of this there are going to be times when he is upfield, the attack breaks down and he is caught out of position. If you play an attacking fullback it is a given he will be caught out occaisionally. This is where your DM should be filling in that space when needed (something Masch was very good at).

Either you get a defensive fullback and lose the attacking option (e.g. Arbeloa) or you play an attacking fullback who gets caught out defensively. You can have both.

For years we'd been complaining about our lack of threats from fullback. We then get an attacking fullback and he just gets complaints defensively. Fickle?

Exactly, it's ridiculous. I remember Finnan being our right back and people lamenting his lack of ability going forward (even though he wasn't bad), same as Arbeloa. Neither were convincing going forward.

Everyone raves about Brazilian laterals, then we get a player in the same mould and everyone moans about his defending . You couldn't make it up. Those moaning about him would swap him for a steady Eddie like, say, Carra, then moan about him being no good going forward. Can't win with some people.

[The_weatherman]

It's hyperbole IMO. He's obviously no Maldini and he obviously has weaknesses, but it's blown way, way out of proportion. If he was as bad as some like to try and make out, Capello wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. Ask yourself how many goals Johnson's so-called wank defending has cost us - the answer is not very many. Not very many at all.

I think Glen would have benefitted from being in the team now when the wins are coming and the team is taking some shape and confidence, he'll find his feet though.

I am warming to the idea of seeing him on the flank though, just to try it out.

[Rudo]

Do those two not go hand in hand?
Johnson is an attacking fullback. And because of this there are going to be times when he is upfield, the attack breaks down and he is caught out of position. If you play an attacking fullback it is a given he will be caught out occaisionally. This is where your DM should be filling in that space when needed (something Masch was very good at).

Either you get a defensive fullback and lose the attacking option (e.g. Arbeloa) or you play an attacking fullback who gets caught out defensively. You can have both.

For years we'd been complaining about our lack of threats from fullback. We then get an attacking fullback and he just gets complaints defensively. Fickle?

You need to get the balance right between defending and attacking but obviously his first priority should be to defend and more often than not he doesn't do that well.

Give me Arbeloa over Johnson any day, i wouldn't call him too defensive either, he got forward well too. I wasn't his biggest fan actually although looking back now, he was a solid player for us come to think of it.

[Lecter]

Do those two not go hand in hand?

Johnson is an attacking fullback. And because of this there are going to be times when he is upfield, the attack breaks down and he is caught out of position. If you play an attacking fullback it is a given he will be caught out occaisionally. This is where your DM should be filling in that space when needed (something Masch was very good at).

Either you get a defensive fullback and lose the attacking option (e.g. Arbeloa) or you play an attacking fullback who gets caught out defensively. You can have both.

For years we'd been complaining about our lack of threats from fullback. We then get an attacking fullback and he just gets complaints defensively. Fickle?

See Steve Nicol

Superb going forward but an awesome fullback in defensive terms

Hes probably the best fullback we have ever had (imo) certainly the most complete

Even if you look at someone like Kelly he looks solid at the back and looks half decent going forward but there is a balance to it (same with Arbeloa)

With Johnson that balance is entirely skewed

[Lecter]

You need to get the balance right between defending and attacking but obviously his first priority should be to defend and more often than not he doesn't do that well.

Give me Arbeloa over Johnson any day, i wouldn't call him too defensive either, he got forward well too. I wasn't his biggest fan actually although looking back now, he was a solid player for us come to think of it.

[elrichio86]

You need to get the balance right between defending and attacking but obviously his first priority should be to defend and more often than not he doesn't do that well.

Give me Arbeloa over Johnson any day, i wouldn't call him too defensive either, he got forward well too. I wasn't his biggest fan actually although looking back now, he was a solid player for us come to think of it.

Fair enough. This season he's not been getting the balance right - possibly as he has to get used to Roys new tactics.

On form, I think he offers enough defensively to balance the occasions he'll get caught out. Its just that he's off form at the moment. I would still have him as first choice when he's back to form.

Personally I think our two right backs need to be different types. One "steady-eddie" Arbeloa / Finnan type, and one attacking type like Johnson. That way we can change depending on the opposition.

[Shaggy]

Fair enough. This season he's not been getting the balance right - possibly as he has to get used to Roys new tactics.

On form, I think he offers enough defensively to balance the occasions he'll get caught out. Its just that he's off form at the moment. I would still have him as first choice when he's back to form.

Personally I think our two right backs need to be different types. One "steady-eddie" Arbeloa / Finnan type, and one attacking type like Johnson. That way we can change depending on the opposition.

[Lecter]

Exactly, it's ridiculous. I remember Finnan being our right back and people lamenting his lack of ability going forward (even though he wasn't bad), same as Arbeloa. Neither were convincing going forward.

Everyone raves about Brazilian laterals, then we get a player in the same mould and everyone moans about his defending . You couldn't make it up. Those moaning about him would swap him for a steady Eddie like, say, Carra, then moan about him being no good going forward. Can't win with some people.

No-one is saying we would prefer a Carragher type player at fullback but you have to have balance

With Johnson there is none hes good going forward but ****e at defending

Arbeloa was ok going forward and a far better defender than Johnson, Babbel was a great defender yet was good at going forward, Kelly is ok at going forward and is a good defender. To me Aurelio is a great example (when fit) hes good going forward and is a real steady defender

Johnson good going forward ****e at defending, Riise scored the odd wonder goal ****e at defending

[elrichio86]

See Steve Nicol

Superb going forward but an awesome fullback in defensive terms

Hes probably the best fullback we have ever had (imo) certainly the most complete

Even if you look at someone like Kelly he looks solid at the back and looks half decent going forward but there is a balance to it (same with Arbeloa)

With Johnson that balance is entirely skewed

In an ideal world this would be perfect. I just cant think of anybody we could afford unfortunately.

IMO Johnson is just off form at the moment. I think its temporary, you and others think its permanent.

[Lecter]

Yes, I think it is. That's why I said that.



No it's not "the best I can do". It's just an example. He's famously hot on defending and I couldn't care less about the dearth of right backs. He simply wouldn't pick him if he was the liability some make him out to be.

There are other capable English right backs. Onuoha is a good player, Micah Richards, Steven Taylor can play there, Luke Young's been called up before, the boy Bardsley is playing every week for Sunderland and by all accounts doing well, Jagielka can play there. If Johnson really was as bad as some try to have us believe (i.e. a liability), then all of those Premier League regulars would be preferred.



"Probably"?

Can't you provide examples? I suspect not because he hasn't cost us many goals at all in the 18 months he's been with us.

Oh ****ing do one

I can barely remember last week nevermind last year

I think he has but without re-watching every game again I couldnt give specifics

The lad is an appalling defender

[elrichio86]

Oh ****ing do one

I can barely remember last week nevermind last year

I think he has but without re-watching every game again I couldnt give specifics

The lad is an appalling defender

[/End thread] Lecter admits defeat