Wigan

[Shaggy]

I think West Ham away was one game were he cost us at least one of goals although I cant be arsed looking for the goals I seem to remember that match for some reason

Off the top of my head (and my abused brain can't remember anything important, it only remembers pointless ****e), he scored the OG against Arsenal last season (the point at which it started going wrong) and there was some bad defending that cost us Forlan's away goal winner in the UEFA Cup semi last season. I'm sure there are a couple more but I think you can count on one hand the number of goals he's been directly culpable for.

[Lecter]

He gave away a Penalty against Blackpool not so long ago, in fact i think it might have been the last match he played for us since his injury.

He was also at fault for Arsenal's equaliser in the 1st game of the season, poor clearance an failed to close down Arshavin - who crossed the ball in.

It's not just these incidents, it's his all round play and the amount of errors he makes during games. And for those saying, his mistakes don't lead to goals, maybe that's true but if you say he's so good going forward...how many assists/goals has he delivered?

Thanks I knew someone with a half decent memory would remember

I've blanked most of the early part of the season out

[dww]

I actually quite liked Arbeloa as an all round player and have said virtually that above

To me he wasnt brilliant at coming forward but he did a good enough job

Defensively he was far far superior to Johnson

Apologies for misrepresenting your views. I'd only read the thread up to the posts I replied to. Vaguely remembered you not being a big fan but obviously your views are more nuanced and positive than I recalled.

To me it doesnt have to be all or nothing Steve Nicol was brilliant at doing both (probably the best I've seen at Liverpool and probably one of the most underrated British fullbacks ever), Babbel was also extremely good at doing both, Arbeloa had a nice balance also and I think Kelly will be able to do both

Interesting point about Kelly and Babbel - I can see the comparison.

[Shaggy]

Babbel was the perfect modern full-back IMO. Not many perfect full-backs I can think of. The other one would have to be Ashley Cole.

[Rudo]

Shaggy man, i thought you were a Johnson critic.

Yeah, Babbel was the perfect full back, Finnan had a few great seasons for us too.

[Shaggy]

Shaggy man, i thought you were a Johnson critic.

Nah. I don't have entrenched positions on things and try and call things as I see them, but no, you must have me confused with someone else. Never really been on his case.

Also liked Finnan but his attacking limitations at times did frustrate.

Nicol was also a good shout. I remember his awesome hat-trick at Newcastle.

[barnes10]

kelly reminds me of babbel actually. Cross between him and arbeloa. hopefully he can develop into a real top class RB

[Rudo]

Nah. I don't have entrenched positions on things and try and call things as I see them, but no, you must have me confused with someone else. Never really been on his case.

Also liked Finnan but his attacking limitations at times did frustrate.

Nicol was also a good shout. I remember his awesome hat-trick at Newcastle.

Same here. If Glen starts performing i'm going to get his name on the back of the away top which i bought last week

I was a little too young to remember Nicol in his heyday, a fine right back by all accounts.

[frank the tank]

Exactly, it's ridiculous. I remember Finnan being our right back and people lamenting his lack of ability going forward (even though he wasn't bad), same as Arbeloa. Neither were convincing going forward.

Everyone raves about Brazilian laterals, then we get a player in the same mould and everyone moans about his defending . You couldn't make it up. Those moaning about him would swap him for a steady Eddie like, say, Carra, then moan about him being no good going forward. Can't win with some people.

I agreed with you here....i thought arbeloa had the right balance to be honest - as did finnan...... i suppose the thing with johnson could be that he never had intellegent enough players around him in midfield to cover when he bombed on......when stevie was playing just behind el nino, he was too far up the pitch, alonso was gone by then, mascher didn't give a ****e and lucas probably didn't know any better....... lets say we had a sitting 2 of Didi and Xabi, then i reckon glen wouldn't be getting such bad press.......

Getting back to the wigan game, i would like to see the same defense start, with maxi losing out, meirales playing left wing, johnson on the right wing and dirk up top with el nino.....lucas and stevie in the middle.......if we were 2 or three goals to the good with maybe 20 minutes to go, then i wouldn't mind seeing us switch to a central defensive back 3, with Konk and Glen as wing-backs........lucas and meirales sitting in the middle, with stevie getting a free role behind torres and kuyt......... i actually think we have the players to play that system effectively - maybe more so than any other until we get a couple of decent wingers...... also, this system would probably work with Joe in the free role and stevie dropping deeper......

[RedReet]

Thats what I meant - wrong choice of words

I think Johnson is more suited to last seasons 4231 system than 442. The 4231 provides the necessary DM's to cover his excursions forward. This isnt available this year, and so he is caught out. If Roy stays for a couple of seasons (shudders) I can see Johnson leaving as he's not suitable for these tactics.

I was actually gonna post yesterday that I think he could possibly go in January if a decent offer came in. I’m guessing he was one of the players Hodgson was on about in his ‘overspending for poor players rant’, he was linked with a few clubs in the summer and hasn’t looked his normal self on the pitch this season.

I’m not sure he fits Hodgson’s team ethos, so if Comolli could identify a younger RB who’d presumably only command a fraction of Johnson’s wages, then I don’t think there would be many at the club fighting to keep him.

[danperkins]

Hansen and Dixon know their stuff but people have picked apart Torres too of late. When a team is down it's easy to over annalyse and shred a particular player.

Hansen and Dixon are 2 of the most respected defenders that have played in the British game, i listen to them when their talking about the defensive side of the game.

[danperkins]

Hes not a good defender, he a ****ing appalling defender

spot on and has been proven to be true even before he came to LFC.

[Lecter]

Nicol was also a good shout. I remember his awesome hat-trick at Newcastle.

He was playing on the left when he scored his hat-trick at Newcastle

[danperkins]

Shaggy when did i say Johnson was a **** player? He is a **** defender. And Hansen and Dixon know more about the defensive side of the game than you, i or anyone on this site put together would ever hope to know. Not all pundits are the enemy and not everything is a witch hunt or an agenda. Paranoid Ramblings. Johnson has proven to be not a good defender throughout his career, great going forward but horrendous positional sense and defensive awareness. Hope for our sake that this can improve or we just blew 17 million quid, also if he is considered great going forward he'd want to be working more on getting assists too and increasing productivity going forward. Nobosy is saying he is a **** player per say just that he is not a good defender.

[Lecter]

I was a little too young to remember Nicol in his heyday, a fine right back by all accounts.

Best rightback I've seen at Anfield (and I've watched since about 76)

Its weird because hes often overlooked in greatest ever LFC XI's usually by Phil Neal

I'd also say Nicol was one of the best leftbacks (if not the best) I've seen at Liverpool as well

His partnership with Barnes was devastating at times