Tide turning against Carragher?

[RichC]

Carragher is not, and never has been, a world class defender. At his best he was just a solid defender playing in a defensive system that masked his glaring weaknesses.

One of the most telling points about his relationship with Hodgson is the way he (Carragher) refers to him as "Roy", and not "boss", "gaffer" etc. Carragher will still be getting a game under Hodgson even if he (Carragher) is in a wheelchair.

Little harsh, whilst I believe the words "world class" are banded about far, far too much these days and I don't believe that Carra was quite in the bracket of world class he wasn't a million miles short of it either and he certainly deserves to be remembered as one of the best CB's of his generation. and certainly better than a solid defender.

Welcome to the site though!

[Tee]

Carra is one of the best 'backs to the wall' defenders. A real fighter when his team are under bombardment and a great leader of his defence.

However, when we have possession and want to play positive fluid football he has demonstrated over the years he is an average footballer at best. 9 times out of 10 he will lose possession with an almighty hoof upfield.

Still love the guy but he is a truly woeful player when in possession. I just know as soon as he gets the ball in space that he will dally on it for a bit, turn and play a back pass to Pepe no matter where he is on the pitch or just give it a welly, John Smiths style. Ave some of that.

[Ben_Itez]

It's the way he controls the ball. It restricts his movement as he controls the ball about a foot in front of him and immediately stops, thus allowing any opposition player to close him down and shut off his options hence either a backpass or hoof.

If you're not sure what i mean just watch him tomorrow, absolutely no fluidity at all.

However, i agree as a backs to the wall style defender there's no-one better.

[Fredo]

It's the way he controls the ball. It restricts his movement as he controls the ball about a foot in front of him and immediately stops, thus allowing any opposition player to close him down and shut off his options hence either a backpass or hoof.

If you're not sure what i mean just watch him tomorrow, absolutely no fluidity at all.

However, i agree as a backs to the wall style defender there's no-one better.

He basically can't control and move at the same time, he's got to kill it, then move.

[GorbyPeacePrize]

It's the way he controls the ball. It restricts his movement as he controls the ball about a foot in front of him and immediately stops, thus allowing any opposition player to close him down and shut off his options hence either a backpass or hoof.

If you're not sure what i mean just watch him tomorrow, absolutely no fluidity at all.

However, i agree as a backs to the wall style defender there's no-one better.

That paints him as a completely one-dimensional player, which I think is 100% accurate.

There are stacks of players that would have done well in the role of the glorified shot-blocker that he has performed in our system, especially with all the defensive assistence which that system demands of other players in the team.

[RichC]

That paints him as a completely one-dimensional player, which I think is 100% accurate.

There are stacks of players that would have done well in the role of the glorified shot-blocker that he has performed in our system, especially with all the defensive assistence which that system demands of other players in the team.

But they weren't here and therefore haven't done it, easy to say someone else could have done as good a job as Carra has over the years, but as has been shown in other teams it's not such an easy job to fulfil.

"We all dream of a team of Carraghers" - I'd say 44k people on a match day on a regular basis over several years must have pretty low expectations for players at LFC

[GorbyPeacePrize]

But they weren't here and therefore haven't done it, easy to say someone else could have done as good a job as Carra has over the years, but as has been shown in other teams it's not such an easy job to fulfil.

"We all dream of a team of Carraghers" - I'd say 44k people on a match day on a regular basis over several years must have pretty low expectations for players at LFC

The point I was making was more about how other players could have done just as good a job in our system - I was not comparing how other players had fared at other Clubs in their own systems.

[RichC]

The point I was making was more about how other players could have done just as good a job in our system - I was not comparing how other players had fared at other Clubs in their own systems.

But you don't know this - it's like saying Drogba could have done just a good a job in our system as Torres does - it's possible but unless you put them into the situation you don't really know.

Who's to say how Terry would have done in Carra's place? similar players for my mind more bloody and guts than skill and guile as is Carra but again doesn't mean he'd have produced the same results as Carra - it's possible even perhaps probable but these what if statements are pure guess work.

If you don't rate him and never have fine, belittleing acheivements though is uncalled for

[Redspin]

But you don't know this - it's like saying Drogba could have done just a good a job in our system as Torres does - it's possible but unless you put them into the situation you don't really know.

Who's to say how Terry would have done in Carra's place? similar players for my mind more bloody and guts than skill and guile as is Carra but again doesn't mean he'd have produced the same results as Carra - it's possible even perhaps probable but these what if statements are pure guess work.

If you don't rate him and never have fine, belittleing acheivements though is uncalled for

Terry's a far superior player - and I hate the *******. Carragher's best career achievement has been hanging on to a regular place long after he became a defensive liability. His time has been and gone. He should be a squad player now and be grateful for

[Daniel 7]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with all this negativity about Carragher when all of you were probably singing "We all dream of a team of Carraghers" during the years of 05, 06, 07 when he was at his peak. He's definitely past his peak now, but don't denigrate what he brought to the club and the effort and commitment he showed that inspired us all as fans.

He should be phased out gracefully like Sami, and if the Carragher running the club rumours are true then he needs to be removed swiftly, but he's been a proper player for us, don't forget that. He was immense in Istanbul, and we were all mystified why Terry was ahead of him for England and in Teams of Seasons.

And in relation to the article about Houllier and where he played him - I remember the back end of Houllier's reign - he shifted Carra inside when he lost faith in Henchoz. I was at the Newcastle game in 03/04 (Houllier, Owen and Heskey's last game) - Henchoz was at right back with Carra at CB. Houllier sometimes used full back as an apprentice position, he used to play Gerrard there too.