Leadership

[dww]

I think we are seriously over analysing the situation. Simple confidence issue, nothing to do with leadership IMO.

We have enough experienced players on the pitch, and if players are not inspired playing in a Liverpool team alongside Gerrard, then they are at the wrong club. He leads by example - nothing wrong with that, and who has set a better example on the pitch in the last 10 years??

I think the point is about doing it on the pitch when things aren't going well. Like for example when Blackpool equalise.

Obviously Gerrard wasn't there for that but in general his leadership style is to try and do everything. That might make people try harder but it doesn't necessarily get them doing the right things.

Gerrard's leadership is great when a/ he is there at the time and b/ he is playing well personally. Does he build other people up so that the game after they take that confidence with them? Not sure he does.

After a bad game it is down to the Manager as well to lift the players. And IMO there is nothing wrong with the Captain, a player of the stature of Gerrard, having a go at those poor performers. If anything it should push them on and give them something to prove.

Our problem is too many players pass the buck on the pitch, expecting Gerrard and Torres to do it every game when they all should be striving to contribute and ensure we get several match winning performances.

That may be true, but Gerrard in particular makes things worse by seeming such an individualistic player.

[Arn]

Wow. Don't even know where to begin with that one.

Did you ever see Hyypia sulk in a single game? Gerrard do it whenever it pleases him. How the **** is that leading by example?

Gerrard is a great player but he isn't a leader on the pitch. Would he be our Captain if he wasn't a local lad? Most probably not.

Some people seems to think that Gerrard is the most perfect human being ever. They refuse to see any weakness whatsoever. That means that it's totally pointless to even discuss him because some fans will defend him over their dead body.

Do Gerrard make other people better? I would say no. What Gerrard brings to a team is his individual skills. He isn't like Hyypia that oozed leadership and lead by example in every game.

Hyypia...Stability on the pitch. Gerrard don't bring stability on the pitch.

[little dave hedgehog]

i've never thought gerrard was a great leader. the one argument i could see for naming him captain is that it seemed to bring the best out of him back when everything good in our squad went through him. now nothing good is coming out of our football at all, so i think we should be reassessing the role our captain plays in the team and figuring out if the extra responsibility is actually doing him any good.

[Arn]

i've never thought gerrard was a great leader. the one argument i could see for naming him captain is that it seemed to bring the best out of him back when everything good in our squad went through him. now nothing good is coming out of our football at all, so i think we should be reassessing the role our captain plays in the team and figuring out if the extra responsibility is actually doing him any good.

If we name another player Captain then Gerrard would demand a transfer request next day without any doubt at all. That is another difference between him and Hyypia.

Hyypia could take that on the chin because it was the best for the team. The team was more important than him. Gerrard would most probably feel very humiliated and **** off. He wouldn't think if it is a decision made to make the team better IMO.

[Tee]

Did you ever see Hyypia sulk in a single game? Gerrard do it whenever it pleases him. How the **** is that leading by example?

Gerrard is a great player but he isn't a leader on the pitch. Would he be our Captain if he wasn't a local lad? Most probably not.

Some people seems to think that Gerrard is the most perfect human being ever. They refuse to see any weakness whatsoever. That means that it's totally pointless to even discuss him because some fans will defend him over their dead body.

Do Gerrard make other people better? I would say no. What Gerrard brings to a team is his individual skills. He isn't like Hyypia that oozed leadership and lead by example in every game.

Hyypia...Stability on the pitch. Gerrard don't bring stability on the pitch.

You are bonkers pal, absolutely bonkers.

And please don't patronise me with that "Some people seems to think that Gerrard is the most perfect human being ever" bull. Gerrard does have his faults but he is the best player Liverpool has had since The King himself and he has saved our skin more times than you can say Bring Back Rafa.

Ask Nando if Gerrard has improved him. I think you would be surprised by what he says.

Really cannot be arsed to draw this debate out with you - but please don't forget your blind faith in Rafa in all this..... oh yes, that is the same Rafa that had Gerrard as his Captan during his whol time here and the same Rafa that let Sami go in 2009... and replaced him with anothr great leader Soto...

[Arn]

You are bonkers pal, absolutely bonkers.

And please don't patronise me with that "Some people seems to think that Gerrard is the most perfect human being ever" bull. Gerrard does have his faults but he is the best player Liverpool has had since The King himself and he has saved our skin more times than you can say Bring Back Rafa.

Ask Nando if Gerrard has improved him. I think you would be surprised by what he says.

Really cannot be arsed to draw this debate out with you - but please don't forget your blind faith in Rafa in all this..... oh yes, that is the same Rafa that had Gerrard as his Captan during his whol time here and the same Rafa that let Sami go in 2009... and replaced him with anothr great leader Soto...

Your are either a complete idiot or a wind up merchant.

You do know that Hyypia didn't want to stay even that Rafa offered him a new deal and that Kyrgiakos was more or less the only one we could afford to sign to replace him? Sorry, you didn't knew that because if you did then you would be a wind up merchant.

Kyrgiakos has been a fantastic signing for £1,5m and a good leader on the pitch. He always give 100%. He make mistakes but he is fighting for the red shirt.

What would have happened if Gerrard hadn't been named Captain? Would he have stayed? Probably not. What option did that leave our manager? Make him Captain or sell him. That is probably the option our manager had. If our manager wanted another Captain that would have meant that Gerrard would need to be sold.

[Craig_H]

Arn, when Houllier made Gerrard captain, there was no hint of Gerrard's future being subject to doubt, no sign of him wanting out or anyone being in for him.

Houllier didnt make him captain to keep him. And there wasnt a situation of 'make him captain or sell him', to my recollection.

[Arn]

Arn, when Houllier made Gerrard captain, there was no hint of Gerrard's future being subject to doubt, no sign of him wanting out or anyone being in for him.

Houllier didnt make him captain to keep him. And there wasnt a situation of 'make him captain or sell him', to my recollection.

I know that it was Houllier that made him Captain but say that Rafa wanted another Captain, would Gerrard have stayed if he named another player Captain?

Chelsea was after him a couple of years before he almost signed for them. No one know what Gerrard would have done if we didn't made him Captain. Would he have joined Chelsea? Who knows?

It was IMO a very clever move by Houllier to make him Captain because that meant that it was a bigger chance that he would stay. More or less no chance that he would do that if he didn't been named Captain IMO.

[Tee]

You do know that Hyypia didn't want to stay even that Rafa offered him a new deal and that Kyrgiakos was more or less the only one we could afford to sign to replace him? Sorry, you didn't knew that because if you did then you would be a wind up merchant.

I think you are on a wind up, seriously.

Hyypia wanted to play more but Rafa could not guarantee him that so Sami took up an offer from Leverkeusen where he would get more gametime. If Rafa thought so highly of him would he not have given him the assurance that he would play more???

I also suggest that if Rafa did not want Gerrard as Captain he would not have made him Captain. Simple as that.

This thread is about Leadership, and to quote your very own words in the opening post... "We need leaders on the pitch that will lead by example."

Gerrard is that man IMO because there is no other Liverpool player of his generation that has led more by example. And WTGOR, as a fellow red, if you cannot accept that I really cannot say anything else to you.

All the best.

[Drago]

I know that it was Houllier that made him Captain but say that Rafa wanted another Captain, would Gerrard have stayed if he named another player Captain?

Chelsea was after him a couple of years before he almost signed for them. No one know what Gerrard would have done if we didn't made him Captain. Would he have joined Chelsea? Who knows?

It was IMO a very clever move by Houllier to make him Captain because that meant that it was a bigger chance that he would stay. More or less no chance that he would do that if he didn't been named Captain IMO.

Exactly.

You don't know and are just speculating. Throwing unfounded **** at the best player this club has had since the King.

[Craig_H]

I know that it was Houllier that made him Captain but say that Rafa wanted another Captain, would Gerrard have stayed if he named another player Captain?

Chelsea was after him a couple of years before he almost signed for them. No one know what Gerrard would have done if we didn't made him Captain. Would he have joined Chelsea? Who knows?

It was IMO a very clever move by Houllier to make him Captain because that meant that it was a bigger chance that he would stay. More or less no chance that he would do that if he didn't been named Captain IMO.

Yep, who knows is right. Yet, you're going on as if it's obvious beyond doubt, that he would have gone.

"Manager had to make him captain or sell him" is a pretty decisive and emphatic statement, which doesnt sit with the ambiguity of 'who knows' ?

[Lecter]

You need more than just those qualities though

Looking at our side we need the following

Leadership, organisation, aggression, belief

and thats before you get to things like pace & width

[Arn]

You need more than just those qualities though

Looking at our side we need the following

Leadership, organisation, aggression, belief

and thats before you get to things like pace & width

That is four things a great Captain brings to a team. We don't have that. Hyypia had that.

Craig and a few other refuse to accept that Gerrard isn't the perfect player. He simply isn't a great Captain. He doesn't bring leadership, organisation, aggression and belief into a side that is playing bad. He do that when the team play good and win games.

The point is that you can't trust him to do a great job in a losing side.

When we are losing then Gerrard almost always turn to even more Hollywood style passing, takes on to much responsibility himself, instead of make other players better and get them to play as a team. The pressure simply gets to him and he can't cope.

He know of course how important he is for us but he should be able to keep a cool head a lot more in pressured situations. A great Captain would be able to do that. That is a part of the leadership qualities we are missing. Someone that will cool the players down in pressured situations and don't rush things.

[RichC]

That is four things a great Captain brings to a team. We don't have that. Hyypia had that.

Craig and a few other refuse to accept that Gerrard isn't the perfect player. He simply isn't a great Captain. He doesn't bring leadership, organisation, aggression and belief into a side that is playing bad. He do that when the team play good and win games.

The point is that you can't trust him to do a great job in a losing side.

When we are losing then Gerrard almost always turn to even more Hollywood style passing, takes on to much responsibility himself, instead of make other players better and get them to play as a team. The pressure simply gets to him and he can't cope.

He know of course how important he is for us but he should be able to keep a cool head a lot more in pressured situations. A great Captain would be able to do that. That is a part of the leadership qualities we are missing. Someone that will cool the players down in pressured situations and don't rush things.

Change the record FFS - nobody has said he's the perfect player but he's the best player we have, pure and simple, perhaps he wears his heart on his sleeve a little too much in terms of showing his frustration but to say he can't do a good job in a losing side is just rubbish - Istanbul 25th May 2005 - 3 nil down at half time, didn't see any insperation from him did we.

In terms of the holywood passes or trying to do more himself maybe thats down to others not doing enough!

Your continued attacks on Gerrard and others are basically dull, "facts" according to you and nobody else and generally just drivel with an agenda in some form to validate Rafa, what that is I have no idea but it's now got tedious!

[Fernandinho]

In regards to agression: Didn't he just get sent off for flying into a two footed, studs up challenge?