Leadership

[Craig_H]

That is four things a great Captain brings to a team. We don't have that. Hyypia had that.

Craig and a few other refuse to accept that Gerrard isn't the perfect player. He simply isn't a great Captain. He doesn't bring leadership, organisation, aggression and belief into a side that is playing bad. He do that when the team play good and win games.

The point is that you can't trust him to do a great job in a losing side.

When we are losing then Gerrard almost always turn to even more Hollywood style passing, takes on to much responsibility himself, instead of make other players better and get them to play as a team. The pressure simply gets to him and he can't cope.

He know of course how important he is for us but he should be able to keep a cool head a lot more in pressured situations. A great Captain would be able to do that. That is a part of the leadership qualities we are missing. Someone that will cool the players down in pressured situations and don't rush things.

**** off with that **** Arn, i've said on NUMEROUS occasions that Gerrard is OBVIOUSLY not the perfect player, there's no such thing, every player and every person has their flaws.

You obviously dont read my posts, so let's try again:

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1829890&postcount=41

Who the hell said Gerrard 'can do no wrong' ? Of course he can do wrong, he's human like me and y...well, me.

He didnt kill your butler though, you have a serious personal issue & agenda here, and i'm starting to worry for your mental wellbeing.

I dont know why he didnt quash the rumours before the world cup, but i think it's a perfectly reasonable theory that he DID want to focus on S.Africa and leave it there. Why is that so far-fetched? England stupidly thought they could win the WC, obviously this was going to be the main focus throughout June and July, why WOULDNT it have been? Why did he NEED to say anything before the world cup? To answer to you?

Torres waited til after the World Cup before he committed himself to us as well - where's your anti-Torres agenda? Hypocrite, much?

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1829911&postcount=50

Number 2 re Gerrard - and in response to your comments. Yes, he had the Chelsea thing and yes, it was rung out in public. It staggeringly baffles me how people have this passionate desire to continue to hang him out to dry, over 5 years later. He made a mistake, like we all do, and has spent over a decade dragging the team out of **** situations, single-handedly.

If Steven Gerrard doesnt deserve forgiveness for a mistake he made as a young man, back in 2005 and instead deserves vicious attacks and vitriol to the point where we can never ever ever accept what happened and then let it lie - well then i think we may as well remove the concept of forgiveness altogether.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1829947&postcount=58

I've often said i'd like Gerrard to be a more vocal leader, but that just isnt him. He's more quiet than that and you could make a case for saying a quiet character isnt ideal to be skipper. But i suppose he leads by example on the pitch. Regarding last season, i think many sulked and Gerrard did too, which i'm certainly not saying is alright, but at the same time, he is still human and no human is perfect and without fault or mistake. I think that all the positive things he has done for us entitle him some forgiveness for the mistakes.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1829960&postcount=60

I do understand that and i agree. But it's not an ideal world and we're dealing with people arent we? If they were robots, then it'd be fine But when emotions are involved, it's hard. I'm not saying Gerrard wasnt wrong to sulk, of course he was. But considering everything he's given us over the years, it's something i am easily prepared to forgive.

So, all in all, as the evidence shows, the idea that i think Gerrard is 'perfect', is never wrong or doesnt make mistakes, is bull****.

Please stop spouting this bull****

[cled the red]

Your are either a complete idiot or a wind up merchant.

You do know that Hyypia didn't want to stay even that Rafa offered him a new deal and that Kyrgiakos was more or less the only one we could afford to sign to replace him? Sorry, you didn't knew that because if you did then you would be a wind up merchant.

Hyypia wanted a 2 year contract extension but Rafa only offered a 1 year contract hence why he joined Leverkusen who gave him what he asked for - Hyypia did not want to leave!!!

[kris90210]

That is four things a great Captain brings to a team. We don't have that. Hyypia had that.

Craig and a few other refuse to accept that Gerrard isn't the perfect player. He simply isn't a great Captain. He doesn't bring leadership, organisation, aggression and belief into a side that is playing bad. He do that when the team play good and win games.

The point is that you can't trust him to do a great job in a losing side.

When we are losing then Gerrard almost always turn to even more Hollywood style passing, takes on to much responsibility himself, instead of make other players better and get them to play as a team. The pressure simply gets to him and he can't cope.

He know of course how important he is for us but he should be able to keep a cool head a lot more in pressured situations. A great Captain would be able to do that. That is a part of the leadership qualities we are missing. Someone that will cool the players down in pressured situations and don't rush things.

There is more than one style of leadership, Arn. Sure, Hyypia was a fantastic captain. Total professional. But Gerrard is inspirational in a way that Hyypia could never be. When Gerrard is playing well, we can beat anyone in the world. He inspired us to victory against Milan in 2005, and has done the same countless times.

He does sulk. He's a passionate player! In terms of ability he's head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch, bar Torres. I agree with the original poster. We need more 'leaders' to shoulder responsibility - in every department. Pretty much all our attacking play comes through Gerrard and Torres. We're far too over reliant on them.

Suarez is a player I'd love to see us bring in. He's not a leader in the Hyypia mould, but if you watch him, he's involved in everything! Always looking to get on the ball. Make things happen. This is what we're lacking. We need a courageous winger who is going to makes things happen - this is another form of leadership.

You're a good poster Arn. But everything is black and white with you. Rafa is infallible. Gerrard and Carragher are cunts that NEED to be sold. There are shades of grey mate...

[Mattshark]

Hyypia wanted a 2 year contract extension but Rafa only offered a 1 year contract hence why he joined Leverkusen who gave him what he asked for - Hyypia did not want to leave!!!

Hyypia also wanted to play more and we couldn't guarantee that.

[dww]

There is more than one style of leadership, Arn. Sure, Hyypia was a fantastic captain. Total professional. But Gerrard is inspirational in a way that Hyypia could never be. When Gerrard is playing well, we can beat anyone in the world. He inspired us to victory against Milan in 2005, and has done the same countless times.

He does sulk. He's a passionate player! In terms of ability he's head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch, bar Torres. I agree with the original poster. We need more 'leaders' to shoulder responsibility - in every department. Pretty much all our attacking play comes through Gerrard and Torres. We're far too over reliant on them.

I think this second point is the core of Arn's point. Over a league season the sulking and 'passion' become inconsistency and that spreads through the team just as the inspiration does. At the minute I think we lack personalities strong enough to resist that in the squad.

[cled the red]

Hyypia also wanted to play more and we couldn't guarantee that.

He'd be a bloody regular this season if he'd hung around!!!!!

[Mattshark]

He'd be a bloody regular this season!!!!!

Yes and that as usual make it all look so simple in hindsight.

[cled the red]

Yes and that as usual make it all look so simple in hindsight.

I know that, I wasn't being serious - I just forgot the at the end of the sentence!!!!

[Mattshark]

I know that, I wasn't being serious - I just forgot the at the end of the sentence!!!!

[kris90210]

I think this second point is the core of Arn's point. Over a league season the sulking and 'passion' become inconsistency and that spreads through the team just as the inspiration does. At the minute I think we lack personalities strong enough to resist that in the squad.

Fair point. I think we do lack personalities strong enough to resist it. But most of our players are actually limited, regardless of their mentality. When Gerrard is off form and Torres in injured, who do we turn to? Kuyt has the perfect mentality, but he lacks the quality to make things happen. Johnson is capable of unlocking a defence, but he's our frigging right back! And that's it. We're getting next to zero creativity from our central midfielders or our wide players.

I would say, of all the issues we have to deal with, Gerrard's attitude is pretty low down on that list.

[Arn]

I think this second point is the core of Arn's point. Over a league season the sulking and 'passion' become inconsistency and that spreads through the team just as the inspiration does. At the minute I think we lack personalities strong enough to resist that in the squad.

[Lecter]

That is four things a great Captain brings to a team. We don't have that. Hyypia had that.

Craig and a few other refuse to accept that Gerrard isn't the perfect player. He simply isn't a great Captain. He doesn't bring leadership, organisation, aggression and belief into a side that is playing bad. He do that when the team play good and win games.

The point is that you can't trust him to do a great job in a losing side.

When we are losing then Gerrard almost always turn to even more Hollywood style passing, takes on to much responsibility himself, instead of make other players better and get them to play as a team. The pressure simply gets to him and he can't cope.

He know of course how important he is for us but he should be able to keep a cool head a lot more in pressured situations. A great Captain would be able to do that. That is a part of the leadership qualities we are missing. Someone that will cool the players down in pressured situations and don't rush things.

I think you are being a bit picky

Gerrard & Carragher might not have all those qualities but then neither did Hyypia either

What one man lacks the others do have, even if you look at someone like Hansen he wasnt aggressive and yet hes considered one of our finest captains

[Arn]

Fair point. I think we do lack personalities strong enough to resist it. But most of our players are actually limited, regardless of their mentality. When Gerrard is off form and Torres in injured, who do we turn to? Kuyt has the perfect mentality, but he lacks the quality to make things happen. Johnson is capable of unlocking a defence, but he's our frigging right back! And that's it. We're getting next to zero creativity from our central midfielders or our wide players.

I would say, of all the issues we have to deal with, Gerrard's attitude is pretty low down on that list.

I would say that priority one for Dalglish should be to sort out the attitude problems that a lot of players showed the last 18 months. Gerrard isn't the only player with an attitude problem.

If he doesn't sort that out then he has no chance to succeed.

If it's any time that Gerrard must show leadership qualities then it is now. He is the key together with Dalglish to sort out the attitude problems. He as our Captain must take his responsibility and tell the players that enough is enough.

The next few months is the biggest test of his career IMO. It will show if he can cope and turn the ship around. It is a bigger test than Istanbul by a mile.

[Arn]

I think you are being a bit picky

Gerrard & Carragher might not have all those qualities but then neither did Hyypia either

What one man lacks the others do have, even if you look at someone like Hansen he wasnt aggressive and yet hes considered one of our finest captains

Fair enough

[kris90210]

I would say that priority one for Dalglish should be to sort out the attitude problems that a lot of players showed the last 18 months. Gerrard isn't the only player with an attitude problem.

If he doesn't sort that out then he has no chance to succeed.

If it's any time that Gerrard must show leadership qualities then it is now. He is the key together with Dalglish to sort out the attitude problems. He as our Captain must take his responsibility and tell the players that enough is enough.

The next few months is the biggest test of his career IMO. It will show if he can cope and turn the ship around. It is a bigger test than Istanbul by a mile.

Agreed, but as I said, I think that's pretty low down in the list of priorities. We NEED better players. That's priority number 1. At least 1-2 that are going to go straight into the first team. If we do that, and they have an impact, it will raise the game of the entire team.

I also think it's totally unfair to shoulder Gerrard with the total responsibility of turning this around. Would Hyypia have been able to? In fact, it's the sheer class of Gerrard (and Torres) which has masked the sheer averagness of the rest of our attacking players for years now.

If the team can't pull itself out of this mess in the next 5 months then each and every player will have to take responsibility. Not just Gerrard - regardless of him being captain.