v Wigan Post Match

[Arn]

Surley though that's not a true representation of Carras general play, because if it is he's causing us as many problems as he solves.

If it only happened in a few games then it wouldn't be a problem but it happens in almost every game he play. When Carra play all the opposition need to do is to let Carra be the one that make the passes because he is such a bad passer.

No risk to get a quick counter attack against you if Carra have the ball so why not let him have it? The opposition use that against us.

Skrtel isn't a great passer but he is still much better than Carra. That says a lot.

He is good defensive defender but he hurt our attacking play a lot.

[Lecter]

If it only happened in a few games then it wouldn't be a problem but it happens in almost every game he play. When Carra play all the opposition need to do is to let Carra be the one that make the passes because he is such a bad passer.

No risk to get a quick counter attack against you if Carra have the ball so why not let him have it? The opposition use that against us.

Skrtel isn't a great passer but he is still much better than Carra. That says a lot.

He is good defensive defender but he hurt our attacking play a lot.

Doesnt help your attacking play but in general improves us defensively its about balancing things out

As Clarke said the other week foundation of any decent side is a good defence - this is where you must start first and foremost

How many goals have we scored recently that have been counter attacks??

Our game is about being in possession not hitting teams

[Arn]

****ing hell, carra was our best defender yesterday by far. those stastics don't into account things such as clearances, are they a misplaced pass or a clearance from danger?

Often he has little choice but to launch when there's no other options, Carra plays the percentages. There was one long ball towards Saurez yesterday that was cut out, but the little fella appauded the attempt to find him.

The problem is when Agger is missing we have no naturally comfortable centre back who can come out with the ball.

First and foremost a centre backs job is to defend and stop goals, **** all else matters.

As for a key reason we dropped points, come on ffs.

Best defender my arse.....

Passes 43, successful 26, unsuccessful 17.
Interceptions 1.
Tackles 5, won 2, lost 3.
Clearances 9, successful 6, unsuccessful 3.
Blocks 2.
Free-kicks 3, won 1, conceded 2.

Compare that with Skrtel.

Passes 32, successful 28, unsuccessful 4.
Interceptions 4.
Tackles 2, won 0, lost 2.
Clearances 2.
Blocks 1.
Free-kicks 2, won 1, conceded 1.

Johnson.

Passes 38, successful 27, unsuccessful 11.
Interceptions 1.
Tackles 10, won 10, lost 0.
Clearances 0.
Blocks 0.
Free-kicks 0.

Kelly.

Passes 41, successful 29, unsuccessful 12.
Interceptions 3.
Tackles 12, won 10, lost 2.
Clearances 3, successful 3, unsuccessful 0.
Blocks 0.
Free-kicks 0.

[Arn]

Doesnt help your attacking play but in general improves us defensively its about balancing things out

As Clarke said the other week foundation of any decent side is a good defence - this is where you must start first and foremost

It isn't any good defending to give away the ball a lot. Good defending is to get the ball and keep it.

[BobTheCharmer]

If it only happened in a few games then it wouldn't be a problem but it happens in almost every game he play. When Carra play all the opposition need to do is to let Carra be the one that make the passes because he is such a bad passer.

No risk to get a quick counter attack against you if Carra have the ball so why not let him have it? The opposition use that against us.

Skrtel isn't a great passer but he is still much better than Carra. That says a lot.

He is good defensive defender but he hurt our attacking play a lot.

So would you rather we had two fantastic world class, the best the world has seen, ball playing centre backs, that scored at will and created endless chances? But also couldn't actually defend, at all and had no postional sense?

A few mispasses places, compared to a Suarez back heel that doesn't come off, a kuyt first touch, a johnson blocked cross, a lucas caught dauldling on the ball, a gerrard shot into row x. All players loss the ball at some time and **** up our attacks. At times Carra plays safety first, others he passes where there are options like yesterday to Kelly, what he doesn't like doing is passing inside to the likes of lucas when he has an opponent close by and risks losing the ball in a dangerous position. Better to lose the ball near their corner flag than 30 yards out from our goal.

[BobTheCharmer]

best defender my arse.....

Passes 43, successful 26, unsuccessful 17.
Interceptions 1.
Tackles 5, won 2, lost 3.
Clearances 9, successful 6, unsuccessful 3.
Blocks 2.
Free-kicks 3, won 1, conceded 2.

Compare that with skrtel.

Passes 32, successful 28, unsuccessful 4.
Interceptions 4.
Tackles 2, won 0, lost 2.
Clearances 2.
Blocks 1.
Free-kicks 2, won 1, conceded 1.

Johnson.

Passes 38, successful 27, unsuccessful 11.
Interceptions 1.
Tackles 10, won 10, lost 0.
Clearances 0.
Blocks 0.
Free-kicks 0.

Kelly.

Passes 41, successful 29, unsuccessful 12.
Interceptions 3.
Tackles 12, won 10, lost 2.
Clearances 3, successful 3, unsuccessful 0.
Blocks 0.
Free-kicks 0.

**** off with statistics and watch the game with your eyes you daft cunt.

they tell one side of a story, the other is who made the cruical blocks and tackles yesterday?

a player may make 19 out of 20 passes yet only hit them 2 foot, a player may make 10 out 20 and yet they were cross field 40 yarders.

[BobTheCharmer]

anyway arn, sorry for swearing. but really you can't judge players performances by a set of stats.

[RichC]

shock and horror, yet another pop regarding either Gerrard or Carra from Arn!

Carra's distribution isn't great I think we'd all agree with that but he is a great defender, he marshalls the defence very well and without him at the back we lack a leader hence until we have a suitable replacement he needs to be there.

Stats can tell you whatever you want them to!

I do find it quite tiresome that people continually slag off our own players, support them as they wear the shirt and remember you're not the manager Kenny is, if he decides he should start then I'll take his decision over anyone on here!

[Lecter]

It isn't any good defending to give away the ball a lot. Good defending is to get the ball and keep it.

So bearing in mind the injuries we had who would you have played yesterday?

Against Chelsea it was noticeable how much Carragher played the short ball and even when Chelsea were happy to give him possession he stepped up drawing a player before again playing it simply

Yesterday yes he was guilty of giving the ball away particularly second half but by then we had started to lose shape we've lost Gerrard prior to the game and Meireles durign the game and the lack of movement was obvious. Our defenders had no angles to play things in and around

Doesnt matter how much possession you have sooner or later your defenders will be asked to perform the fundamental basics of being a defender - ie be asked to DEFEND

Dont get me wrong you'd ideally want someone capable of doing BOTH defending and bringing the ball out. In my eyes we dont have anyone capable of doing all those things - Agger is probably the nearest, Carragher is our best defender by a mile but his passing isnt great, Soto is great in the air but his all round game is poor, and Skrtel although he has been playing well I'm none too convinced of him

[Arn]

So bearing in mind the injuries we had who would you have played yesterday?

Against Chelsea it was noticeable how much Carragher played the short ball and even when Chelsea were happy to give him possession he stepped up drawing a player before again playing it simply

Yesterday yes he was guilty of giving the ball away particularly second half but by then we had started to lose shape we've lost Gerrard prior to the game and Meireles durign the game and the lack of movement was obvious. Our defenders had no angles to play things in and around

Doesnt matter how much possession you have sooner or later your defenders will be asked to perform the fundamental basics of being a defender - ie be asked to DEFEND

Dont get me wrong you'd ideally want someone capable of doing BOTH defending and bringing the ball out. In my eyes we dont have anyone capable of doing all those things - Agger is probably the nearest, Carragher is our best defender by a mile but his passing isnt great, Soto is great in the air but his all round game is poor, and Skrtel although he has been playing well I'm none too convinced of him

Carra isn't our best defender by a mile, Agger is. Carra isn't even our best defensive defender, that is also Agger.

[RichC]

Agger wasn't available who would you have played instead of Carra then?

[cled the red]

Carra isn't our best defender by a mile, Agger is. Carra isn't even our best defensive defender, that is also Agger.

What a load of bollocks!!!! Carra reads the game and organises the defence much better than any other defender at LFC.

[Arn]

Carra's passing statistics in the PL this season.

Arsenal, 33, 22-11, 67%.
Man C, 40, 29-11, 73%.
WBA, 31, 23-8, 74%.
Birmingham, 36, 26-10, 72%.
Man U, 29, 23-6, 79%.
Sunderland, 33, 28-5, 85%.
Blackpool, 66, 56-10, 85%.
Everton, 61, 45-16, 74%.
Blackburn, 54, 33-21, 61%.
Bolton, 59, 42-17, 71%.
Chelsea, 15, 9-6, 60%.
Wigan, 42, 30-12, 71%.
Stoke, 57, 34-23, 60%.
West Ham, 49, 39-10, 80%.
Tottenham, 22, 13-9, 59%.
Chelsea, 33, 23-10, 70%.
Wigan, 43, 26-17, 60%.

Season....703, 511-192, 72,68%.

[Lecter]

Carra isn't our best defender by a mile, Agger is. Carra isn't even our best defensive defender, that is also Agger.

Carragher is our best defensive defender by a country mile

[Arn]

Agger wasn't available who would you have played instead of Carra then?

Wilson without any doubt at all. Carra is past it and shouldn't be in the starting XI.