Jay Spearing

[Darkon]

I honestly wonder how big a difference an overhaul have done, it's a bit like when introduced in the work place. It's pumped up to be a big thing, when in reality it's the ongoing stability that is really left. Or perhaps it's just because we just went through one at work, and 1 year later it's back at basic but someone got credited for "shaking things up"

I agree that in the past decade we havn't really gotten any proper talents through the system. The best is Warnock and Guthrie that are not really world beaters.

Spearing and Kelly have both been here since the late 90's so that is good spotting well before Rafa and Houllier entered the scene. Flanagan and Robinson I'm not certain of when they where picked up by the club, but likely to have been during Houllier's reign? I don't think we will see the product of Rafa's setup yet, it can easily take 10+ years before the proper youth players of a system comes through.

I'm with Mr.M that of all Rafa's legacies with the club, the youth will not be amongst the highlights. Will be interesting to see if Suso and Sterling makes it, I have my doubts over the first mentioned and more hope with the second. Few home-grown players was introduced during Rafa's reign, and due to lack of the very same. Our scouting department needed some new ideas, and we will see in 2-5 years if it has worked.

[Craig_H]

Kenny Dalglish: “He [Benitez] reorganised the whole Academy and you can see the benefit in the kids now.”

Pep Guardiola: “The academy of Liverpool is the only one that can compare to La Masia of Barcelona FC. If Liverpool can manage those lads in the academy, then maybe 20 star players can arrive from that academy.”

I'm not having it that Pep Guardiola uses the term 'lads'

[Shaggy]

Nemeth we got £1m for
San Jose was good, £2.5m
Ayala we got about £1m for
Mavinga the same iirc.

By contrast though
Anderson - 100k
Buchtmann - 250k
Hobbs, Roque, Antwi, Leto, Flora, Pourie, Huth, Crowther, Simon etc - frees

Again, of course some youth players will fail and be released for nowt. But we'll have paid fees, sometimes quite substantial ones, for all those listed, I wouldn't say they exactly turned into a fabulous earner or anything taken as a total.

Over eight million quid right there for players who were brought to the club for peanuts.

[dww]

Nemeth we got £1m for
San Jose was good, £2.5m
Ayala we got about £1m for
Mavinga the same iirc.

By contrast though
Anderson - 100k
Buchtmann - 250k
Hobbs, Roque, Antwi, Leto, Flora, Pourie, Huth, Crowther, Simon etc - frees

Again, of course some youth players will fail and be released for nowt. But we'll have paid fees, sometimes quite substantial ones, for all those listed, I wouldn't say they exactly turned into a fabulous earner or anything taken as a total.

I thought we got ~£3m for Leto and Hobbs was an undisclosed fee, so it seems hard to argue either way. Wastage at youth level is inevitable but the list there more than paid for itself.

[Darkon]

When Rafa arrived, we had two youth internationals. TWO.

We now have 35 on our books.

Good point, will be interesting to see how many of them will make it to the top level.

[Buzzo]

Am I the only one who thought he was awful?

I thought he was about average last night, did his job competently no more no less. When Everton came back into the game after the first 20 mins I felt he was caught out a few times ball watching, and I wouldn't really fancy his chances up against Fellaini (As I also whispered during the match I quite rate Fellaini, and not just coz of his 'fro)

However, when we were comfortable and on top Jay sat back and anchored the midfield pretty well. He has a tenacity about his play and a range of passing similar in my mind to Sammy Lee (though less good) that added to his diminutive stature, and he really is at times similar to Lee.

I also think the game last night is about Jay's level. Everton sat off us for large periods of the game allowing us to dictate and giving him lots of space. In reality, much as with Charlie Adam, with a full squad and some improved signings to chose from I wouldn't expect Jay to feature that much. Similarly against a better midfield I think he struggles to hold his own. He has benefited due to injury and loss of form. He'll never let you down Jay, but he is no world beater either.

As opposed to say Lucas personally, I always felt was a technically very sound player, Lucas has added game intelligence, great positional awareness and strength to his game. Jay I'm not o sure he will develop too much further and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on in a year or 2 to further his career and get more game time, and good luck to him, he has already played more for us than I ever thought he would.

[Shaggy]

I thought we got ~£3m for Leto and Hobbs was an undisclosed fee, so it seems hard to argue either way. Wastage at youth level is inevitable but the list there more than paid for itself.

You're right, £3m to Panathinaikos, having been signed for about £1.7m.

[MrMichael]

You're right, £3m to Panathinaikos, having been signed for about £1.7m.

I read somewhere that the fee was actually nowhere near £3m but a loan and he went on a nominal fee the following year. That £3m was definitely never conformed. Anyway, not going to argue over semantics, we shifted some of those players on for decent money true, but some also cost us a good amount, plus there's wages & effort training etc. I doubt they comprise what we could call a lucrative income stream. And I still think its disappointing that so few seemed to ever get anywhere near making it at the club.

As an aside, has Leto really scored 15 in 17 in the Greek league this season?

[Shaggy]

Yep, he had something like 10 in 5 at the beginning

Been playing up front I think.

[Shaggy]

Re Leto, he went to Olympiakos on loan then joined Pana for what was said to be £3m. Given we bought him for £1.8m, and he'd been a great success in Greece and was in demand, I think the mooted £3m fee makes perfect sense.

It was widely reported, eg:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/25/liverpool-accepted-offer-sebastian-leto

Also the LFC history site has it down as £3m.

[Cormack74]

Pep Guardiola: “The academy of Liverpool is the only one that can compare to La Masia of Barcelona FC. If Liverpool can manage those lads in the academy, then maybe 20 star players can arrive from that academy.”

Is that real / recent?

[Shaggy]

Is that real / recent?

Yep it's true, quotes from last summer. Comments were made on a Catalan radio station.

https://twitter.com/#!/ESPN_JorgeRamos/status/78440738635001856

[dww]

I read somewhere that the fee was actually nowhere near £3m but a loan and he went on a nominal fee the following year. That £3m was definitely never conformed. Anyway, not going to argue over semantics, we shifted some of those players on for decent money true, but some also cost us a good amount, plus there's wages & effort training etc. I doubt they comprise what we could call a lucrative income stream. And I still think its disappointing that so few seemed to ever get anywhere near making it at the club.

As an aside, has Leto really scored 15 in 17 in the Greek league this season?

I suspect we will never get to the bottom of the finances of these things. I think we can all agree that it certainly isn't enough to run a club on

I don't think it was compromising anything which seem the important thing. Unless we assume that the players coming in prevented other developing - the careers of those young players that anyone can remember suggests this was not a huge factor. Far more of the 'bought in' players are now playing football at top league teams around Europe than those who were at the club. As such I would suggest they were better bets for being good enough for our first team. If we more or less broke even on those gambles then it seems worth while to me.

When people talk about Rafa's handling of young players they tend to ignore the likes of Agger and Lucas. Who I think we can agree turned into decent players. Even Pepe was young for a keeper.

[Cormack74]

Yep it's true, quotes from last summer. Comments were made on a Catalan radio station.

https://twitter.com/#!/ESPN_JorgeRam...40738635001856

Blimey.

[Shaggy]

When people talk about Rafa's handling of young players they tend to ignore the likes of Agger and Lucas. Who I think we can agree turned into decent players. Even Pepe was young for a keeper.

No question. Not sure about Agger but Lucas hadn't long turned 20 when he signed for us. He's turned out pretty nicely.