Jay Spearing

[The Birdman]

I really, completely disagree with this. I mean do you honestly think that the people here judge him on that? I'd say that's the last thing that people think of.

Everything Jay does is viewed through scouse tinted glasses.

[Mattshark]

I will happily admit I want all of our players to succed including Jay - and why wouldn't I?

I think he has done a decent job of being backup for Lucas this season, and we shouldn't underestimate the value of having players in the squad that are happy just being here even if they only get 10 games in a season.

He is not good enough to be a regular starter right now, and wouldn't be if not Lucas was injured, but he has proven himself usefull.

I don't think anyone doesn't want all our players to succeed, the issues come with which players you think will succeed.

[RedReet]

Everything Jay does is viewed through scouse tinted glasses.

How patronising.

It’s not even as if he gets that much praise FFS. Even look at the first page of his thread, it was started on the back of an excellent performance yet most of the posts were saying he’s still not good enough. How you perceive he gets favoritism because of where he’s from is beyond me. If anything he doesn’t get some of the credit he deserves regardless of where he was born. I’d say the opposite and if he was 19 with a fancy sounding foreign name people would be creaming themselves over him.

[The Birdman]

I'll happily admit I want Jay to succeed. Would I want him to improve more than a played we purchased? Yes, for sure.

He came through our youth system and has the club close to his heart. If he ever became world class and had the best in Europe chasing after him, he'd likely do a Stevie G and stay put, whatever our circumstances. That's one reason.

Anotherid that he is sn example to others in the youth team/reserves. If one player makes it, so can another.

So for the above reasons it would be great if he could prove his ability and worth to the team.

I would not, however, keep him in the squad if he wasn't good enough to be there. For now, he deserves to be in our starting XI ahead of Charlie Adam, as he brings better balance.

I hope we play him until the end of the season. If we win games with him in the side, like we did at the back end of last season, then maybe he can prove he warrants a stay of execution.

No doubt Lucas is number 1 when it comes to DM. but can Jay be his long term deputy? To me, the jury is still out. He needs to perform to a 7/10 level week in, week out. Hasn't done that yet.

For me he deserves his place on merit for now. So over to you Jay.

Genuine question, is 7/10 every week good enough?
I don't just mean for Jay but for any of our players. We won't get back into the top 4 with 7/10 performances every week imo.

On the Jay subject, if he can't reach 7/10 every week (which he hasn't, he's a long way away from it) then really what is he doing here?

I completely understand the balance of the side argument and as I posted previously I'm happy if Jay is picked for the rest of the season if that allows Gerrard and the rest to bomb on, that doesn't mean he is good enough it just means he is not as bad as our other options in that role.

I don't think Jay would get into the squads of Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea let alone their teams, he may sneak into Newcastle's squad.

[The Birdman]

How patronising.

It’s not even as if he gets that much praise FFS. Even look at the first page of his thread, it was started on the back of an excellent performance yet most of the posts were saying he’s still not good enough. How you perceive he gets favoritism because of where he’s from is beyond me. If anything he doesn’t get some of the credit he deserves regardless of where he was born. I’d say the opposite and if he was 19 with a fancy sounding foreign name people would be creaming themselves over him.

Then I'd say you are bonkers
ALL Jay can do is close the ball down, not vacate space (i.e stand still in front of the 2 centre backs) and pass it 10 yards, if we signed a foreigen 19 year old who could only do that there would rightly be uproar.

Plus, Jay is 23.
23 is not young in modern football, clearly it's not past it age either but Jay has done most if not all of his technical/footballing developing by now.

[RedReet]

Then I'd say you are bonkers
ALL Jay can do is close the ball down, not vacate space (i.e stand still in front of the 2 centre backs) and pass it 10 yards, if we signed a foreigen 19 year old who could only do that there would rightly be uproar.

Plus, Jay is 23.
23 is not young in modern football, clearly it's not past it age either but Jay has done most if not all of his technical/footballing developing by now.

But similar things were said about Lucas, only passes sidewards, not strong enough, can't tackle, never be good enough etc. I doubt Jay will ever be as good as Lucas but he's shown enough promise to be given the chance.

I know what age he is but due to a lack of first team opportunites he hasn't got that much experience. Experience that will make him into a better player. How you can claim he's finished developing I'll never know especially as he's at a similar age to Lucas when he really started making an impression as a DM and continued to improve and develop with every game up until he got injured.

[Mattshark]

But similar things were said about Lucas, only passes sidewards, not strong enough, can't tackle, never be good enough etc. I doubt Jay will ever be as good as Lucas but he's shown enough promise to be given the chance.

I know what age he is but due to a lack of first team opportunites he hasn't got that much experience. Experience that will make him into a better player. How you can claim he's finished developing I'll never know especially as he's at a similar age to Lucas when he really started making an impression as a DM and continued to improve and develop with every game up until he got injured.

But most of that was demonstrably false and to be fair Lucas was a far better player at every stage and far superior technically.

[The Birdman]

But similar things were said about Lucas, only passes sidewards, not strong enough, can't tackle, never be good enough etc. I doubt Jay will ever be as good as Lucas but he's shown enough promise to be given the chance.

I know what age he is but due to a lack of first team opportunites he hasn't got that much experience. Experience that will make him into a better player. How you can claim he's finished developing I'll never know especially as he's at a similar age to Lucas when he really started making an impression as a DM and continued to improve and develop with every game up until he got injured.

The Lucas comparison isn't really true, I was never one of those who piled into Lucas and had a pop at him as he came with a pedigree and showed enough to say he would come good.
By not camparable I mean we signed Lucas at 19 (I think) and he was the youngest player to win their Golden Ball award, Brazil Under 21 and was also a full international fairly early.

Jay should improve with experience but by develop I mean he isn't going to add anything new to his game now, Lucas had the technical ability, played as an attacking or box to box midfielder in Brazil. Rafa was the one who changed him into a holding midfielder.

To repeat an earlier post it isn't that I think Jay is ****, it's that I don't think he is good enough and I certainly think we need to have better than him to break back into the top 4

[RedReet]

But most of that was demonstrably false.

Exactly. Just as I think 'ALL Jay can do is close the ball down' is too.

[Mattshark]

Exactly. Just as I think 'ALL Jay can do is close the ball down' is too.

I think arguing positioning is a little more difficult, unless we go through video we can't assess his position the way you can easily look at passing and tackling stats.

[RedReet]

The Lucas comparison isn't really true, I was never one of those who piled into Lucas and had a pop at him as he came with a pedigree and showed enough to say he would come good.
By not camparable I mean we signed Lucas at 19 (I think) and he was the youngest player to win their Golden Ball award, Brazil Under 21 and was also a full international fairly early.

Jay should improve with experience but by develop I mean he isn't going to add anything new to his game now, Lucas had the technical ability, played as an attacking or box to box midfielder in Brazil. Rafa was the one who changed him into a holding midfielder.

To repeat an earlier post it isn't that I think Jay is ****, it's that I don't think he is good enough and I certainly think we need to have better than him to break back into the top 4

I think the Lucas comparison is more than fair as just how Lucas was effective as an attacking force in an inferior league, so too was Jay at reserve level. Both have had to change their game and concentrate on a more disciplined defensive role.

Again, you are saying that we couldn’t challenge for a top 4 spot with him in the team which is the same crap people also said about Lucas. This isn’t all about Lucas BTW, on his own merit he played well for us towards the end of last season when our form was good enough to challenge for the title never mind finish top 4.

IMO he has played as well as any of his midfield partners this year (well maybe not Gerrrard after this game) who have cost the club a fortune in fees and wages. We have much bigger issues as a club than having Jay Spearing as cover for Lucas.

[RedReet]

I think arguing positioning is a little more difficult, unless we go through video we can't assess his position the way you can easily look at passing and tackling stats.

As I said earlier in the thread, time will soon tell if he's good enough.

[Buzzo]

I thought he was about average last night, did his job competently no more no less. When Everton came back into the game after the first 20 mins I felt he was caught out a few times ball watching, and I wouldn't really fancy his chances up against Fellaini (As I also whispered during the match I quite rate Fellaini, and not just coz of his 'fro)

However, when we were comfortable and on top Jay sat back and anchored the midfield pretty well. He has a tenacity about his play and a range of passing similar in my mind to Sammy Lee (though less good) that added to his diminutive stature, and he really is at times similar to Lee.

I also think the game last night is about Jay's level. Everton sat off us for large periods of the game allowing us to dictate and giving him lots of space. In reality, much as with Charlie Adam, with a full squad and some improved signings to chose from I wouldn't expect Jay to feature that much. Similarly against a better midfield I think he struggles to hold his own. He has benefited due to injury and loss of form. He'll never let you down Jay, but he is no world beater either.

As opposed to say Lucas personally, I always felt was a technically very sound player, Lucas has added game intelligence, great positional awareness and strength to his game. Jay I'm not o sure he will develop too much further and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on in a year or 2 to further his career and get more game time, and good luck to him, he has already played more for us than I ever thought he would.

Wow - what an insightful and well written post Buzzo, it really manages to sum up what everyone is thinking. It seemed to have been missed yesterday as the debates raged on.

You should post more often, as your ability to sum up what everyone is thinking and nullify all the squabbling is truly amazing You must have been really disappointed that no one mentioned it yesterday what with your spending so much time composing it. Maybe it is due to your occassional bad splling and gramr?

[DannyMan2006]

One thing I like about Jay, he never hides.....

[RedReet]

One thing I like about Jay, he never hides.....

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=2245077&postcount=670