Alexander Doni

[saj]

I was under the impression it just offsets muscle fatigue/failure so you can push that little bit harder for bigger gains hence the longer recovery period.

It's probably the best supplement out there bar whey (but some people question it's need over whole milk).

You are spot on. You instantly start lifting more and you get those extra 2 reps which really tear your muscles and help you get good gains. It's good for anything which is high intensity (sprinters, footballers, weight lifters etc) but not aerobic exercise like jogging.

I never saw any benefits when playing football but people react differently. I used to get cramps a lot every time I stretched/yawned.

IMO it is far better than any other supplement and it actually works.

[el matador]

Huh? Please don't flatter yourself. You're starting to sound like Chris. You could always just answer the question?

have a look at these articles. they highlight that doping was going in italian football and they all talk about del piero of juventus and the creatine that they were taking.

think of it this way - professional athletes hearts are probably already on the large side (when compared to lay people) because they do a lot of cardio vascular, and if creatine a substance which enlarges muscles (could also mean the heart too) is added into the mix, is it possible that in some athletes it could have a detrimental effect.

thats what i was saying and i already qualified it by saying im not a doctor or anything.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/sports/24iht-soccer_ed3__24.html?_r=0

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-drugs-in-serie-a---italy-sinking-deeper-into-scandal-1178042.html

look at the articles and make your own mind up. but i remember del piero one season being a skinny kid and then the next season he looked like the incredible hulk. he'd abnormally filled out and the press picked up on it too.

thats the first i had heard of creatine in sports.

[dom9]

Thanks. That's interesting but those articles mention creotine only in passing, if at all. In amongst all the other murky accusations.

[saj]

have a look at these articles. they highlight that doping was going in italian football and they all talk about del piero of juventus and the creatine that they were taking.

think of it this way - professional athletes hearts are probably already on the large side (when compared to lay people) because they do a lot of cardio vascular, and if creatine a substance which enlarges muscles (could also mean the heart too) is added into the mix, is it possible that in some athletes it could have a detrimental effect.

thats what i was saying and i already qualified it by saying im not a doctor or anything.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/sports/24iht-soccer_ed3__24.html?_r=0

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-drugs-in-serie-a---italy-sinking-deeper-into-scandal-1178042.html

look at the articles and make your own mind up. but i remember del piero one season being a skinny kid and then the next season he looked like the incredible hulk. he'd abnormally filled out and the press picked up on it too.

thats the first i had heard of creatine in sports.

Seriously man, let it go

Creatine cannot enlarge your heart that's just mental. These theories of your are unreal. It does not enlarge your muscles. It helps you to push harder and the harder you work, the bigger your muscles in your arms, legs etc get. As far as I'm aware, it's not possible to do dumbell reps with your heart .

Creatine will not bulk you up massively at all. After the initial loading phase, you will on average put on 5lb's as your muscles are retaining more water. Muscles are composed of 70% (I think) anyway. The way you get bulked up is by working harder and creatine can help with that little but ultimately it comes down to diet etc as to how much gains you make. The fact is you can easily get the same bulk with or without creatine. It may take a little longer without creatine.

To get massive gains in a short period of time, the only way to do it is steriods which are illegal of course. Creatine is not illegal. Many sports people use it. It is contained in well known Protein supplements such as Maxmuscle Cyclone. It's a substance that your body produces naturally hence why it is known as "natures steriod". If you are a lover of red meat, chances are you are taking in as much creatine as someone who uses it as a supplement in powder form for example. The creatine you buy is synthesised. You only need to take 5g a day. You can't overdose on it as your body naturally removes excess creatine all the time.

[el matador]

Thanks. That's interesting but those articles mention creotine only in passing, if at all. In amongst all the other murky accusations.

I think Italian football went through the doping phase and for the ex Parma player to say that they might have been given EPO shows the dangers of supplements and drugs to players.

Its wrong and unecessary imo. What were effectively doing is tricking the body into believing that synthetic drugs are intact safe to metabolize. Might just be me but aren't people worried.

The doni incident might be a congenital problem which is completely unrelated to any drugs at all. I said that he's from the generation where doping was ocurring in Italian football.

as for creatine each to their own. If you want to take it, then just take it but don't try and convince people that's its just a vitamin or other rubbish.

[dom9]

I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you're getting supplements, drugs, treatments and side effects confused. You started talking about creatine, but have digressed to general doping, epo and steroid use to back up your point.

Like I say I'm no expert, but each substance or treatment should be treated on its own merits, in the same way as recreational drugs are.

[el matador]

Thanks. That's interesting but those articles mention creotine only in passing, if at all. In amongst all the other murky accusations.

I think Italian football went through the doping phase and for the ex Parma player to say that they might have been given EPO shows the dangers of supplements and drugs to players.

Its wrong and unecessary imo. What were effectively doing is tricking the body into believing that synthetic drugs are intact safe to metabolize. Might just be me but aren't people worried.

The doni incident might be a congenital problem which is completely unrelated to any drugs at all. I said that he's from the generation where doping was ocurring in Italian football.

as for creatine each to their own. If you want to take it, then just take it but don't try and convince people that's its just a vitamin or other rubbish.

[el matador]

I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you're getting supplements, drugs, treatments and side effects confused. You started talking about creatine, but have digressed to general doping, epo and steroid use to back up your point.

Like I say I'm no expert, but each substance or treatment should be treated on its own merits, in the same way as recreational drugs are.

do we know that synthetic creatine is 100% safe for sure. It increases performance without doubt like other substances do that's probably why its banned in certain sports.

The original point was about doni coming from a culture of football drugs misuse. Creatine was one of the things that club doctors used amongst others.

im not saying he is a druggie but that the use of substances could have impacted on his heart. Equally it might be congenital who knows until its confirmed by doctors either way.

[dom9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine

[el matador]

**** it dom I'll try ityself and I'll let you know how my calves look in a month.

[Mattshark]

I think Italian football went through the doping phase and for the ex Parma player to say that they might have been given EPO shows the dangers of supplements and drugs to players.

Its wrong and unecessary imo. What were effectively doing is tricking the body into believing that synthetic drugs are intact safe to metabolize. Might just be me but aren't people worried.

The doni incident might be a congenital problem which is completely unrelated to any drugs at all. I said that he's from the generation where doping was ocurring in Italian football.

as for creatine each to their own. If you want to take it, then just take it but don't try and convince people that's its just a vitamin or other rubbish.

You do know all vertebrates produce creatine naturally don't you? It is produced in both the kidney and liver. Studies have also failed to show any negative effects on the heart.

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-4020-6486-9_14

It has however shown that it is good for neuromuscular illness and that it is good for cognitive ability.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10078740

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21328269

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

As Saj says, if you eat meat you intake about a gram of creatine a day on average.

A study last year showed that there was positive effects for creatine supplementation in footballers in fact.

http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/EJSES-vol1-iss2/EJSES-2012-1-2-33-39.pdf

And yes, like with vitamins, a lack of creatine is not a good thing and can result in issues.

http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v36/n3/abs/pr1994762a.html

The European Food Safety Authority has labelled (after plenty of study) that 3grams of pure creatine a day is risk free. Even higher doses have failed to show any negative side effects (up to 20g a day).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15758854

Any questions?

[el matador]

You do know all vertebrates produce creatine naturally don't you? It is produced in both the kidney and liver. Studies have also failed to show any negative effects on the heart.

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-4020-6486-9_14

It has however shown that it is good for neuromuscular illness and that it is good for cognitive ability.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10078740

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21328269

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

As Saj says, if you eat meat you intake about a gram of creatine a day on average.

A study last year showed that there was positive effects for creatine supplementation in footballers in fact.

http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/EJSES-vol1-iss2/EJSES-2012-1-2-33-39.pdf

And yes, like with vitamins, a lack of creatine is not a good thing and can result in issues.

http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v36/n3/abs/pr1994762a.html

The European Food Safety Authority has labelled (after plenty of study) that 3grams of pure creatine a day is risk free. Even higher doses have failed to show any negative side effects (up to 20g a day).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15758854

Any questions?

wow you went to those lengths to prove a point.

I'm flattered matt. If its so safe why don't all the clubs use it ?

[Mattshark]

wow you went to those lengths to prove a point.

I'm flattered matt. If its so safe why don't all the clubs use it ?

Depends on what the clubs want. It is for muscle build up. If the players are ok with the muscles, there is no need to supplement, just as there is no need for vitamin supplementation if your diet doesn't require it.

Do you have any evidence that it is not safe? Or do you simply not know and just assumes?

[el matador]

Depends on what the clubs want. It is for muscle build up. If the players are ok with the muscles, there is no need to supplement, just as there is no need for vitamin supplementation if your diet doesn't require it.

Do you have any evidence that it is not safe? Or do you simply not know and just assumes?

it would seem odd to me that a highly tuned athlete would need to take creatine to add muscle bulk when they train so hard in the first place.

Their bodies are already engineered by training regimes. That's what worries me, that players who's muscles are already operating at max levels would want to mess around with body chemistry like that.

its uses in body building in an extreme way but they are gross exaggerations of the body.

To me it seems wierd.

[saj]

wow you went to those lengths to prove a point.

I'm flattered matt. If its so safe why don't all the clubs use it ?

How do you know clubs don't use it? Is that another unsubstantiated theory of yours?

Years of research have proved Creatine is not bad for you. I will repeat - YOUR BODY PRODUCES CREATINE. If you eat meat YOU ARE CONSUMING CREATINE. How can you just sit at home and think of theories like this? People have heart conditions, it's a fact. It's almost like you are saying sports people are immune from heart problems unless they have taken some sort of supplement