Liverpool v Sunderland post match thread

[Red_Polo]

I find it interesting that you keep putting things in my mouth

Disappointing start to the season, but I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the game in full. Keen to see how cohesive we look as a team at this early stage.

[BootRoom]

Lucas - as a defensive midfielder - isn't expected to cover four positions, he patrols in front of the back four, providing cover and filling in for players as they venture out of position. It can be argued that the two wide players cover the full backs, so in essence, he's only covering the two centre backs. It has nothing to do with being Usain Bolt.

Adam was at fault for the goal as much as Flanagan, but Adam ventured further forward when looking for a goal, however, in the first half, you can't really fault Adam's value to the team. In the second half, the team - as a collective - tired.

I was responding to the implication that Lucas was supposed to be providing cover to Flanagan, Carragher and Agger - i.e. whenever they became exposed it was Lucas' fault. I agree that in a defensive capacity, the primary role of the DM is to stop the opposition bearing down on the centre of our defence unimpeded. But if the DM gets dragged out wide, it is still expected that a different player would take up defensive duties in the vacated position.

[Muddled]

That was maybe even the most important signing this summer and we still haven't signed a new top class central defender.

If Kenny want to play a high defensive line and press all over the pitch then he must replace Carra as soon as possible.

Carra can still do a job but it should be as cover and not as a starter.

If he want our right fullback to be able to attack a lot then he must replace Carra. It isn't only our defence that get weaker because of him. It also weakens our attacking options.

If he want Lucas and Adam to play more box to box then he must replace Carra and get in someone that can cover for them when they attack.

Arn, seriously.

Carragher isn't weakening our right hand side attack - Carragher has no impact on how well we attack down the right. In the first half half, Henderson (and Downing) both dropped as Flanagan moved forward. Thus, Carragher isn't involved. It can be argued he is involved in the attack with his distribution, but he gives the ball to Lucas and Adam to let them build. If he's in a position were he can't play it out to midfield, he either goes across the defensive line, or yes, he hoofs it.

Yes, I can see your point that defensively he is vulnerable and yes, we are looking to press the team at it's highest point - mainly working from the front, but our defensive line is still a straight bank of four that isn't *that* high up the pitch. When defending Carragher is influenced by Flanagan, but at what point defensively did Carragher and Flanagan cause any major issues for us today?

[Mostar]

Yep I exaggerated your point to imply constant defensive interventions from Adam, but I still stand by the point that the lack of defensive help from his central midfield partner was a significant contributing factor to Lucas’ decline in the game.

I can see where you're coming from but imo Lucas didn't have a particularly bad game but he didn't have a good game neither nor he played at the level we come to expect from him.

I just think that Kenny rushed him and as much as that worked ok with Suarez it didn't work well in case of Leiva.

When it comes to Adam and Lucas partnership they clearly need time to gel as they had no chance to play together in the pre-season and hopefully they both will forge the partnership and come through for us in the way that we all want to see.

[Muddled]

I was responding to the implication that Lucas was supposed to be providing cover to Flanagan, Carragher and Agger - i.e. whenever they became exposed it was Lucas' fault. I agree that in a defensive capacity, the primary role of the DM is to stop the opposition bearing down on the centre of our defence unimpeded. But if the DM gets dragged out wide, it is still expected that a different player would take up defensive duties in the vacated position.

It seems that we have crossed wires then.

Welcome to the site BTW, keep posting.

[Arn]

Arn, seriously.

Carragher isn't weakening our right hand side attack - Carragher has no impact on how well we attack down the right. In the first half half, Henderson (and Downing) both dropped as Flanagan moved forward. Thus, Carragher isn't involved. It can be argued he is involved in the attack with his distribution, but he gives the ball to Lucas and Adam to let them build. If he's in a position were he can't play it out to midfield, he either goes across the defensive line, or yes, he hoofs it.

Yes, I can see your point that defensively he is vulnerable and yes, we are looking to press the team at it's highest point - mainly working from the front, but our defensive line is still a straight bank of four that isn't *that* high up the pitch. When defending Carragher is influenced by Flanagan, but at what point defensively did Carragher and Flanagan cause any major issues for us today?

Do Agger need to give the ball to Lucas or Adam as often as Carra do? The answer is no. If you need to do it all the time when you don't hoof it then it takes time and the chance to counter attack is over and you will be up an organized defence.

The attacks start from the back. That is why you must have two central defenders that can make a quick pass without any problem and that can carry the ball without any problem.

Fergie is starting to ease Ferdinand out with Smalling replacing him. AVB have a similar job to do easing Terry out.

Carra, Ferdinand and Terry. Three central defenders that have been excellent but isn't that now.

[Mostar]

Kenny's post game interview



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WEooDETxX4&feature=feedu"]Kenny Dalglish's Sunderland Verdict - YouTube[/ame]

[BootRoom]

I can see where you're coming from but imo Lucas didn't have a particularly bad game but he didn't have a good game neither nor he played at the level we come to expect from him.

I just think that Kenny rushed him and as much as that worked ok with Suarez it didn't work well in case of Leiva.

When it comes to Adam and Lucas partnership they clearly need time to gel as they had no chance to play together in the pre-season and hopefully they both will forge the partnership and come through for us in the way that we all want to see.

Replacing with Spearing wouldn't have been a totally outrageous decision in this instance, but not a long term plan. We've still got questions all over the pitch at this point.

[Rich]

Just watched the whole of the first half.

Promising signs, think we just need a bit more fitness and for our new players to bed in.

[Muddled]

Do Agger need to give the ball to Lucas or Adam as often as Carra do? The answer is no. If you need to do it all the time when you don't hoof it then it takes time and the chance to counter attack is over and you will be up an organized defence.

The attacks start from the back. That is why you must have two central defenders that can make a quick pass without any problem and that can carry the ball without any problem.

Fergie is starting to ease Ferdinand out with Smalling replacing him. AVB have a similar job to do easing Terry out.

Carra, Ferdinand and Terry. Three central defenders that have been excellent but isn't that now.

Having a centre back that doesn't *play the ball* doesn't hinder a counter attack, yes, hoofing might cost you possession, but a simple pass to our midfield won't slow us down.

I think there is way too much emphasis on the need for ball playing defenders. I want my defenders to defend, I want them to stop the opposition in any way (legally) possible and put their body on the line. There is nothing wrong with having a blend of a technically gifted defender and a stopper (for want of a better word).

Our attack starts when the ball is released from our defence, whether that is ten yards in our own half, or ten yards in the oppositions half.

[el matador]

theres really no point panicking because we still got a point and its only the first game of the season. weve a lot of new players and at times they were all over the place at times.

adam, henderson, downing and enrique will all get a better understanding of how kenny wants the team to play over the next 5 to 10 games and ive no doubt we will do ok. i am disappointed but looking forward to the next game.

[Mostar]

Replacing with Spearing wouldn't have been a totally outrageous decision in this instance, but not a long term plan. We've still got questions all over the pitch at this point.

Who knows. Jay could've started and played worse and then everybody would be all over him for not starting Lucas.

He thought Leiva was our best option today and unfortunately didn't work as well as he was hopping for.

I also do think that we have other issues throughout the team and I wished those journalists at the post game conference asked him questions about playing Flanagan and not Kelly and for not featuring Aquilani at least on the bench.

[Muddled]

I think Flanagan was there on merit; mainly because of pre-season and the end of last season. Putting Kelly back in the team as soon as he came back from injury on the back of a bad pre-season - I think - would have sent out the wrong signals to other youngsters.

As for Aqualani, I think Norbert might have said this once or twice already, but I agree with him - I think we didn't want to get him injured before his move back to Italy.

[BootRoom]

Who knows. Jay could've started and played worse and then everybody would be all over him for not starting Lucas.

He thought Leiva was our best option today and unfortunately didn't work as well as
I also do think that we have other issues throughout the team and I wished those journalists at the post game conference asked him questions about playing Flanagan and not Kelly and for not featuring Aquilani at least on the bench.

I meant Spearing could have replaced Lucas sometime during the match, when the signs of fatigue were obvious. He was ripe for substitution and I can't quite fathom why it didn't happen.

I don't think the right back position will be the subject of much controversy if Johnson is back soon AND he plays well (no doziness). I'm more concerned about fitting the midfield together and sorting out the centre back issue.

[Mostar]

theres really no point panicking because we still got a point and its only the first game of the season. weve a lot of new players and at times they were all over the place at times.

adam, henderson, downing and enrique will all get a better understanding of how kenny wants the team to play over the next 5 to 10 games and ive no doubt we will do ok. i am disappointed but looking forward to the next game.

Good post but my disappointment is that we dropped very important 2 points especially at home, which will be difficult to make up as we have tough next 5 games compared to the most of other top 5 teams, not so much with how we played.

we'll need to stop this type of bleeding if we want to go far this year.