Liverpool v Sunderland post match thread

[Craig_H]

I made the same point many times during the pre-season that we need more creativity and at least one more player that can single-handedly influence the game and it was very apparent today, that with exception of Stevie and Suarez, we just don't have that type of a player.

I don't expect us to buy a game changer this year as we don't have time and probably money to do that this transfer window but imo we should do what we can to keep Aquilani.

He's the only one that has the potential to turn things around for us when we desparetely need creativity and without him our options are very limited.

You and i both, and others i'm sure, were banging on about it, admittedly, to an annoying extent before the season started. I really hope Downing develops into what we need, in that respect. Today though, once Suarez went off, we were pretty limp, very predictable, one-dimensional and easy to defend against. If the fatigue issue played any significant part, then hopefully that'll address itself before too long.

Much of it can address itself in fact, such as Downing and Adam stepping upto the plate in due course, which i hope they can do. That said, it's still 2 dropped points which are no less valuable because they were dropped in the first game, than they would be around Easter time.

[little dave hedgehog]

well mostar, i think there are lots of fans out there who reckon there's not really anything we can do but hope for the best, and feel like a constant discussion on the subject is just not that enjoyable. the point is, i think the original post was trying to say that posts such as craig's are not everyone's cup of tea, and then craig, possibly wrongly, took that to mean "craig is a cunt".

[Craig_H]

Is there not a chance you are being overly critical, it being the first game of the season?

Overly critical? In what way? I've merely said that my fears, based on that game (the only one i can currently use as a barometer) were realised thus far.

I cant judge on games 2, 3, 4 and so on, because they obviously havent been played yet, and no football fan in the world comes away from a game without making some kind of judgement/opinion based on the one game they just saw.

Of course it's only 1 game and hopefully things will start to pick up more, but (remembering the season where we finished 2nd and bemoaned home draws to Hull and Stoke, for example), the 2 dropped points are of the same value as they would be in May. The frustration is there from having drawn at home to a midtable side, even though yes, it is game one and rustiness isnt uncommon or unexplainable.

[Mostar]

well mostar, i think there are lots of fans out there who reckon there's not really anything we can do but hope for the best, and feel like a constant discussion on the subject is just not that enjoyable. the point is, i think the original post was trying to say that posts such as craig's are not everyone's cup of tea, and then craig, possibly wrongly, took that to mean "craig is a cunt".

Oh I see.

[Craig_H]

well mostar, i think there are lots of fans out there who reckon there's not really anything we can do but hope for the best, and feel like a constant discussion on the subject is just not that enjoyable. the point is, i think the original post was trying to say that posts such as craig's are not everyone's cup of tea, and then craig, possibly wrongly, took that to mean "craig is a cunt".

I didnt take it like that I was curious to know what he was distinguishing between, when he referred to 'forum fans'.

Personally, i cannot control emotions to such an extent that results like today dont piss me off, and within the context of what forums are generally about, i'm obviously now expressing my views on it. Like you, i genuinely wish i didnt feel pissed off about it, but i do as we all do, without doubt. How we react to it is obviously different for different people. Whilst i'm pissed off, i wont be reaching for the kitchen knife and i wont be up crying about it all night

Having only just got back about an hour ago, i'm still in the 'release what's pent up inside' mode

[little dave hedgehog]

i reckon myself is that in the end, it's people who have nothing much to say after a match probably aren't forum members, hence the original statement.

myself, i like to complain.

[Craig_H]

React is a better word IMO

[Arn]

Is there not a chance you are being overly critical, it being the first game of the season?

I don't think Craig is to harsh in his criticism.

If you look at the fitness of the players now then it really is a joke. Kenny did a very bad job in pre season. Kenny is an excellent manager but to play so many players that really isn't in contention at all to play in the PL for us instead of players that needed match fitness is very very strange.

That is the main reason to our very poor second half. You can blame the players, the formation or the tactics but in the end it was all down to players that wasn't match fit when the season started and that really is a big joke.

I don't like to blame Kenny and certainly not in a harsh way like this but the way he used the players in pre season as we now see deserves criticism.

[little dave hedgehog]

no, i like to complain.

but i will also say again, that this is a transitional season, and i think expecting a real challenge this year is getting ahead of ourselves, even though i believe it's possible if things get sorted out quickly. to me, the activity at the club points to the idea of making a serious run at it next year. i think "an improvement" is going to be good enough for the owners this year.

[Craig_H]

no, i like to complain.

but i will also say again, that this is a transitional season, and i think expecting a real challenge this year is getting ahead of ourselves, even though i believe it's possible if things get sorted out quickly. to me, the activity at the club points to the idea of making a serious run at it next year. i think "an improvement" is going to be good enough for the owners this year.

I'm not.

Top 4 though.

[doogle]

I think a lot of the newbie’s were scared of playing towards the Kop, I say this because I was thinking of why we went completely to **** in the 2nd half, It could of been fatigue but it was the whole 2nd half and straight after a 15 minute break, all the interviews I have seen with the newbie’s there is generally one question 'How do you feel about playing in front of the Kop' and If I try to put myself in their position and to know of the history of it it must be daunting, I know they're professionals and have played in front of big crowds before but still the Kop must be a pretty terrifying place if your only 1 up and scared of losing the lead and if your previous experiences of home crowds turning on you are bad or maybe I’m looking for excuses but it was such a good first half and I know Sunderland have not played their first 11 in their pre season games either so why didn’t they go to **** either or maybe they were just not as **** 2nd half

[little dave hedgehog]

we gotta get rid of those players though arn, and we need to show that they aren't absolutely ****e (or at least hope they show that...) so we can get a few bucks in return (and also do it in matches where it won't immediately hurt our points total). we aren't in a 100% comfortable position as a club yet, there are still things that need to be sorted out before all the ground work they want to put in is deemed ready. it's a ground up approach imo.

[Craig_H]

Dave, winning matches and being properly/fully prepared for the season should have been the biggest priority IMO mate.

[little dave hedgehog]

i know, but i think the owners have other ideas that they think are going to make us a force in the coming years. if we recoup money for those players, that means we can bring in better players in the future. and there's absolutely no guarantee that we'll lose matches because of it, even though we may have done today. when the decision was taken, it probably seemed right to them, and i'd argue that while they may be a little disappointed we couldn't win today, they will hold fast to their ideas and hope that it stands us in good stead in the future. hopefully also they will buy a center back and possibly a forward, but again that probably has a lot to do with how many clubs we can get to take our other players.

[Arn]

we gotta get rid of those players though arn, and we need to show that they aren't absolutely ****e (or at least hope they show that...) so we can get a few bucks in return. we aren't in a 100% comfortable position as a club yet, there are still things that need to be sorted out before all the ground work they want to put in is deemed ready. it's a ground up approach imo.

Money of course is important but it shouldn't affect the way we use the players in pre season because a CL place is worth much more than that.

Every point is important, every point count. I see it as two points dropped because the players wasn't ready to play a full PL game. Not because of tactics etc as I said.

I can't see them being that more match fit against Arsenal. They probably need four or five games before they are match fit.

They should be match fit from game one and not from game five or six.