Summer purchases

[Mostar]

I completely agree with what you're saying but that graph looks like a load of crap to me.

Good point

[danperkins]

I don't think that is the case at all.

The opinion was expressed that we don't create enough chances and stats clearly demonstrate that is not the case. In fact we created more than any club in PL and to me that says enough.

Those 3 need to improve and be more consistant no doubt about that but there is no denying that they created plenty of goal scoring chances that we just failed to convert.

I hear what you're saying mate. But that's the issue i have with statistics and this moneyball stuff. I have watched every single game this season much like many LFC supporters, so i can relate to the stats provided as i have watched those games (stating obvious i know)

My point being just because Downing or Hendo got a ball in or near the box, doesn't mean it was a good ball, from what i have seen most of the delivery has been poor,scuffed,underhit nothing balls in. Poor and wasteful delivery isn't creating chances, it's just poor and wasteful delivery & Downing in particular as he is the out and out winger, has been horribly wasteful. IMO Hendo although i have been dissapointed with him, has had different roles and may have been playing deeper, therefore less likely to create.

Henderson i can forgive, he is young and learning. Downing IMO has no excuse, sure poor finishing from our misfiring forwards is very evident, but i just can't excuses how bad Downing has been for LFC. I hope he starts to improve quick smart, as we need all our players to stand up and be counted & Downing thus far in his LFC career has been sub standard to say the least, and that's being kind.

[Arn]

If you compare this season with last season after we signed up Kenny then the big difference is Kuyt and Maxi.

They scored the "easy" goals. Kuyt now plays more as an out and out winger and not as a right sided striker. That means that he isn't in the box as much as before.

Maxi hasn't played that much this season.

We also got more players in the box last season than we do now.

Carroll should IMO stay in the middle and not drift out wide as often as he do now. We need him in the box.

Look at the way Gomez play at Bayern. You almost never see him drift out wide. He stays in the middle and creates havoc in the box. That is the way Carroll should play.

Then we should get the best out of him.

[Fivex]

Arn, do you think Carroll can ever be truly great for us as an anti-midget?

[danperkins]

If you compare this season with last season after we signed up Kenny then the big difference is Kuyt and Maxi.

They scored the "easy" goals. Kuyt now plays more as an out and out winger and not as a right sided striker. That means that he isn't in the box as much as before.

Maxi hasn't played that much this season.

We also got more players in the box last season than we do now.

Carroll should IMO stay in the middle and not drift out wide as often as he do now. We need him in the box.

Look at the way Gomez play at Bayern. You almost never see him drift out wide. He stays in the middle and creates havoc in the box. That is the way Carroll should play.

Then we should get the best out of him.

Kuyt has been a real dissapointment this season, looks shot. has got so many important goals for us in teh past that have been non existent this season.

Maxi is a much more productive option than Downing at the minute and is underused IMO.

Agree with Carroll taking leaf out of Gomez book although i think that type of play is instinctive aswell.

[Mostar]

I hear what you're saying mate. But that's the issue i have with statistics and this moneyball stuff. I have watched every single game this season much like many LFC supporters, so i can relate to the stats provided as i have watched those games (stating obvious i know)

My point being just because Downing or Hendo got a ball in or near the box, doesn't mean it was a good ball, from what i have seen most of the delivery has been poor,scuffed,underhit nothing balls in. Poor and wasteful delivery isn't creating chances, it's just poor and wasteful delivery & Downing in particular as he is the out and out winger, has been horribly wasteful. IMO Hendo although i have been dissapointed with him, has had different roles and may have been playing deeper, therefore less likely to create.

Henderson i can forgive, he is young and learning. Downing IMO has no excuse, sure poor finishing from our misfiring forwards is very evident, but i just can't excuses how bad Downing has been for LFC. I hope he starts to improve quick smart, as we need all our players to stand up and be counted & Downing thus far in his LFC career has been sub standard to say the least, and that's being kind.

I know where you coming from and I agree that you cannot look stats in isolation nor you can rely on visual perception as your only proof. It has to be fine balance between those as eye can be sometimes deceiving especially if you allow personal judgements to creep in, which is what we all do all the time.

None of those 3 impressed me so far and in the current form I am not sure any of them deserve to start but you can clearly see that all 3, especially Downing and Adam to some extent are clearly lacking confidence and that is affecting their game and it is painful to watch.

Downing is definitely struggling atm but there isn't magical potion for him to get out of slump.

You can either put him on the bench and keep him there for little while until he earns his start or play him in hopes that he'll regain his confidence soon and be the player Kenny thought he is.

The problem to me is not Downing alone,even though he is not playing great but the fact that we have quite few of others that are playing below their expectations and that lack of collective contribution is showing in the end.

[Arn]

Kuyt has been a real dissapointment this season, looks shot. has got so many important goals for us in teh past that have been non existent this season.

Maxi is a much more productive option than Downing at the minute and is underused IMO.

Kuyt isn't an out and out winger. Laughable to play him in that position. I think he would have scored a few goals if he had played on the right in a 4-2-3-1 as he did last season.

Kenny make mistakes and to play Kuyt as a winger is one. He is one of our most clever players, great vision and game intelligence.

Kenny is moaning about missed chances but he himself is a reason to why we miss a lot of chances because of the system we play.

A lot of goals is scored on rebounds etc, so called dirty goals, but we play a system with very few players in the box that means less players that score the dirty goals.

Carroll is more or less our only player now when Kuyt plays out wide that is a penalty box specialist and he isn't delivering or not playing at all. That means very few dirty goals.

We need more mobile midfielders that will make runs into the box and help out score the dirty goals. Henderson and Adam simply is joke when it comes down to that. We missed Gerrard big time because he is our only midfielder that do that.

Kenny can continue moaning about missed chances but he could start playing the players in their best position. Then we would most probably score more goals. Kuyt as a right sided striker for example and Carroll staying in the middle to start with.

Maxi instead of Downing would also help.

[Arn]

The keeper can concentrate on making the save and don't need to worry about a rebound. That makes it easier to make the save.

That means they make more fantasy saves against us.

If we had players going after the rebound then the keeper would have to concentrate on not only making the save, he would also need to make the save in a way that pushes the ball away.

That means a more difficult save.

How many times this season have we been first to a rebound in the box?

[danperkins]

I know where you coming from and I agree that you cannot look stats in isolation nor you can rely on visual perception as your only proof. It has to be fine balance between those as eye can be sometimes deceiving especially if you allow personal judgements to creep in, which is what we all do all the time.

None of those 3 impressed me so far and in the current form I am not sure any of them deserve to start but you can clearly see that all 3, especially Downing and Adam to some extent are clearly lacking confidence and that is affecting their game and it is painful to watch.

Downing is definitely struggling atm but there isn't magical potion for him to get out of slump.

You can either put him on the bench and keep him there for little while until he earns his start or play him in hopes that he'll regain his confidence soon and be the player Kenny thought he is.

The problem to me is not Downing alone,even though he is not playing great but the fact that we have quite few of others that are playing below their expectations and that lack of collective contribution is showing in the end.

all fair points mate.

I was touting while back for Downing and Hendo to be given more bit part roles, both were lacking confidence, still are. IMO using them as impact subs try and boost their confidence wee bit made sense. But injuries in key areas made that not an option.

If we can get Gerrard back fully fit i'm very curious to know how Kenny will set us up? On another thread i saw that many people wanted Gerrard in AM and Adam deeper as DM.

IMO i'd prefer it this way:

Gerrard--Spearing/Hendo
---------Adam---------------

My reasons behind this are the fact that Adam is absolutely poxy defensively, to me it makes sense to get that left hammer of his closer to goal and not have to worry so much about defesive responsiblies, as they are IMO a very weak part of his game. I know it's great to get Stevie near the goal, but at the moment with Lucas out Gerrard for me is the only one that can control that midfield, even if it means him playing deeper he still has a range of passing that can affect he play high up the pitch. Just my opinion on it, i'm sure others will differ.

[danperkins]

Kuyt isn't an out and out winger. Laughable to play him in that position. I think he would have scored a few goals if he had played on the right in a 4-2-3-1 as he did last season.

Kenny make mistakes and to play Kuyt as a winger is one. He is one of our most clever players, great vision and game intelligence.

Kenny is moaning about missed chances but he himself is a reason to why we miss a lot of chances because of the system we play.

A lot of goals is scored on rebounds etc, so called dirty goals, but we play a system with very few players in the box that means less players that score the dirty goals.

Carroll is more or less our only player now when Kuyt plays out wide that is a penalty box specialist and he isn't delivering or not playing at all. That means very few dirty goals.

We need more mobile midfielders that will make runs into the box and help out score the dirty goals. Henderson and Adam simply is joke when it comes down to that. We missed Gerrard big time because he is our only midfielder that do that.

Kenny can continue moaning about missed chances but he could start playing the players in their best position. Then we would most probably score more goals. Kuyt as a right sided striker for example and Carroll staying in the middle to start with.

Maxi instead of Downing would also help.

Some valid points there.

Adam playing deep is not good and he doesn't have the engine to get to the box to support the front line, and sure that front line consists of Suarez drifting everywhere and Carrolll dropping too deep.

IMO that's why it's so important to have Maxi and Bellamy in there, movement and guile, both make great runs beyond the forwards and into the opposition box, makes sense the more people in teh box the better chance we have of scoring, which is a wee bit of an issue currently.

[Exiled_red]

I completely agree with what you're saying but that graph looks like a load of crap to me.

[Neil Young]

LDP obviously got a lot of words for Christmas.

[Lecter]

waits for "what was the quality of the chances" comment.

I think you're bang on here though Mos, we are not scoring enough from the chances created, thats a woeful conversion rate regardless of the woodwork.

All the guys in the side to score goals have to up their game and that for me includes Suarez who whilst is simply an amazing talent is not doing the most important bit for us and popping the ball in the back of the net.

[Lecter]

Yes we hit the woodwork a lot, however, a lot of them are not easy chances either, Suarez lob v Villa and Henderson's v Fulham, Downing v Sunderland.

What about the other 12-13 times we hit the woodwork??

[Lecter]

Kuyt has been a real dissapointment this season, looks shot. has got so many important goals for us in teh past that have been non existent this season.

Sadly I think Dirks time is up

Hes been a great servant