The Question: why are Liverpool struggling to score at home?

[Rabiosa]

Glen Johnson playing at rightback

[Craig_H]

I think one of the interesting things that come up from this and the thread on here about crosses is how unreliable they are. It appears an exception cross completion rate (that is someone getting on the end of it at all) is around 30%. I wonder how much of peoples perceptions of the quality of our crosses is based around an intuition that they could be much better than that.

I think the Chapman quote rings true. For me crosses represent a high risk gamble of themselves but help to allow a team to manipulate how the opposition defence moves and positions itself. A prime example being how well United played when Valencia and Rooney worked together - not only was the link directly decent but the wing play of Valencia made more room centrally for Rooney.

If you want to talk about United and crosses, it's far simpler than the point you make - they load up the box with players when they cross the ball, we dont.

[Lecter]

I think we are creating enough chances and quality of those is not bad but we are just not putting them away.

In addition, we hit the woodwork 18 times now and missed 4 out of 5 penalty kicks for FFS and 2 of those, if converted, would have resulted in 4 extra points and us sitting comfortably in 4th place.

We need a clinical finisher and just little bit of luck and we should be fine.

[Lecter]

I agree, I don't think the chances we create are all clear cut and we do struggle to open teams up. Hopefully, this will change now Gerrard is back, he do all the things our midfielders and wide players are failing to do. Will also pop up with a goal or two as well.

We have created more than enough CLEAR CUT chances to win the vast majority of the games we have drawn and some of those we have lost

Mostars youtube compilation of some of the chances we have missed shows that

The amount of times the crowd/Suarez et al have their head in their hands is frightening

Yes you could always improve the number of chances you are creating and the number of bodies in the box etc.. but the bottom line is we are missing simple chances that a top quality striker would put away comfortably

[Craig_H]

We have created more than enough CLEAR CUT chances to win the vast majority of the games we have drawn and some of those we have lost

Mostars youtube compilation of some of the chances we have missed shows that

The amount of times the crowd/Suarez et al have their head in their hands is frightening

Yes you could always improve the number of chances you are creating and the number of bodies in the box etc.. but the bottom line is we are missing simple chances that a top quality striker would put away comfortably

Surely Lec, if there were that many CLEAR CUT chances, we wouldnt need a 'top quality' striker in order to score them? If they're clear cut, which suggests being fairly simple finishes, a merely adequate striker/finisher would convert them?

[Lecter]

If you want to talk about United and crosses, it's far simpler than the point you make - they load up the box with players when they cross the ball, we dont.

Equally the players that get on the end of their crosses put their chances away whether they are clear cut or half chances

I dont buy the bodies in the box as a reason we are missing chances

It might be a reason why some crosses are wasted but we are still getting on the end of a lot of crosses and cant put them away, take Carroll as an instance on Friday night & V Blackburn - you think Rooney or Hernandez wouldnt have put one of them away. Damn right they would

Same for the chances Suarez has missed (at Stoke & Villa and also V Norwich) - Hernandez & Rooney would have buried some of them

[Lecter]

Surely Lec, if there were that many CLEAR CUT chances, we wouldnt need a 'top quality' striker in order to score them? If they're clear cut, which suggests being fairly simple finishes, a merely adequate striker/finisher would convert them?

Well the conversion rates of Suarez & Carroll would suggest they arent even adequate strikers

[Mostar]

Surely Lec, if there were that many CLEAR CUT chances, we wouldnt need a 'top quality' striker in order to score them? If they're clear cut, which suggests being fairly simple finishes, a merely adequate striker/finisher would convert them?

Check this video.

Some of the chances we failed to convert were easier to miss than to score and some we didn't capitalize on were result of some outstanding goalkeeping.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqUK-EvEBus"]Liverpool - Missed Chances (First Half of 11_12)(720p_H.264-AAC).mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

[Craig_H]

Equally the players that get on the end of their crosses put their chances away whether they are clear cut or half chances

I dont buy the bodies in the box as a reason we are missing chances

It might be a reason why some crosses are wasted but we are still getting on the end of a lot of crosses and cant put them away, take Carroll as an instance on Friday night & V Blackburn - you think Rooney or Hernandez wouldnt have put one of them away. Damn right they would

Same for the chances Suarez has missed (at Stoke & Villa and also V Norwich) - Hernandez & Rooney would have buried some of them

And more equally, they get on the end of their crosses because they're in the right areas to do so. Ours usually arent. And also, it stands to reason that, if we only have ONE player in the box, defenders only have him to worry about and can double up on him in meeting the cross, surround him etc - all in all, making the conversion of the chance all that bit harder.

I agree about people like Rooney/Hernandez simply being better finishers, of course that plays a part. But there's more than just one reason for us not taking more chances.

[Lecter]

And more equally, they get on the end of their crosses because they're in the right areas to do so. Ours usually arent. And also, it stands to reason that, if we only have ONE player in the box, defenders only have him to worry about and can double up on him in meeting the cross, surround him etc - all in all, making the conversion of the chance all that bit harder.

I agree about people like Rooney/Hernandez simply being better finishers, of course that plays a part. But there's more than just one reason for us not taking more chances.

Half chances maybe you have a point

But we are creating clear cut chances EVERY game that a decent finisher would be bagging comfortably

The fact our players are getting on the end of them and are missing them tells you we are doing part of the stuff right

Equally if you have a player who has a 25-30% conversion rate hes more likely to finish than 2 players each with a 8% conversion rate no matter how many chances you get on the end of

[Craig_H]

How **** must Suarez and Carroll be then, if they cant convert these CLEAR CUT chances that even a mere 'decent' striker would convert?

[Lecter]

Check this video.

Some of the chances we failed to convert were easier to miss than to score and some we didn't capitalize on were result of some outstanding goalkeeping.


Liverpool - Missed Chances (First Half of 11_12)(720p_H.264-AAC).mp4 - YouTube

Its frightening to watch some of the chances Carroll & Suarez have spurned and the fact that this is only "some" of the chances they have missed is even more concerning

[Darkon]

How **** must Suarez and Carroll be then, if they cant convert these CLEAR CUT chances that even a mere 'decent' striker would convert?

Just refound this graph I saw the other day, and it shows that it really is the conversio that's the problem IMO. While not telling the whole story, it does show that both Suarez and Carroll can't have been to clinical up front and I think our midfield owes quite a few as well.

No matter what it's frustrating as f***

[Lecter]

How **** must Suarez and Carroll be then, if they cant convert these CLEAR CUT chances that even a mere 'decent' striker would convert?

8% conversion rate isnt exactly good

Heidar Helguson at QPR has a 23% conversion rate whilst Steven Fletcher has a 29% conversion rate

[Craig_H]

8% conversion rate isnt exactly good

Heidar Helguson at QPR has a 23% conversion rate whilst Steven Fletcher has a 29% conversion rate

Is there genuine statistical validity then, to say that Helguson and Fletcher are far better finishers than Suarez and Carroll?