Liverpool Stoke post game waking up thread

[Craig_H]

No I dont think they expected it to happen

I also dont think they expected him to be so profligate either

My big problem is the excuses people are making for Suarez whilst not allowing Carroll those same excuses

Its ****ing hypocritical

Fine criticise Carrolls all round play and praise Suarez's

But lets not excuse Suarez being profligate because "he needs better players around him to enable him to finish", "he wasnt bought as a goalscorer he was bought to provide"

You could argue exactly the ****ing same for Carroll

Its ****ing pointless and its double-standards

Oh come on Lec, you're not that naive.

Clearly Suarez is being given more leeway because he's produced far more for us overall. Obviously. How much of a genius does it take to work that one out?

By the same token if Downing misses a sitter, he'll get pelters. If Gerrard misses the same chance, he wont. Because he's earnt himself plenty of leeway with everything else he has done.

You know that and you know how it works. I cant believe you're genuinely questioning it.

[Lecter]

WTF are you talking about ? Seriously.....

You have stated our goalscoring problems are down to Dalglish's transfer policy

Suarez is as profligate as any other within the side so surely that was a poor transfer as well based on your theory

[Leyton388]

As much as i love Kenny and think he will get it right. I would love to see what rafa would do with the backing FSG have given Kenny. Just a thought.

[~LFCHistory~]

No I dont think they expected it to happen

I also dont think they expected him to be so profligate either

My big problem is the excuses people are making for Suarez whilst not allowing Carroll those same excuses

Its ****ing hypocritical

Fine criticise Carrolls all round play and praise Suarez's

But lets not excuse Suarez being profligate because "he needs better players around him to enable him to finish", "he wasnt bought as a goalscorer he was bought to provide"

You could argue exactly the ****ing same for Carroll

Its ****ing pointless and its double-standards

Suarez has flaws same as all footballers but he has been brilliant for us from day one. Carroll and Downing have been ****ing woeful from day one. Adam IMO doesn't belong at this club and Henderson may indeed come good at some point but so far I have not been impressed with him.

[Lecter]

Oh come on Lec, you're not that naive.

Clearly Suarez is being given more leeway because he's produced far more for us overall. Obviously. How much of a genius does it take to work that one out?

By the same token if Downing misses a sitter, he'll get pelters. If Gerrard misses the same chance, he wont. Because he's earnt himself plenty of leeway with everything else he has done.

You know that and you know how it works. I cant believe you're genuinely questioning it.

They are different arguments though Craig

But people are blaming Suarez's misses on not having good players around him

Thats ****ing rubbish

Just as saying hes a No.10 and was bought as a provider so we can excuse his finishing is ****ing rubbish

I will say again Suarez's ability does give him major plus points just dont buy giving him excuses like those above

[Lecter]

This quote above perfectly summarises every single one of your posts today Lec Arguing for the sake of arguing

At least its only today I've been pointless

[~LFCHistory~]

You have stated our goalscoring problems are down to Dalglish's transfer policy

Suarez is as profligate as any other within the side so surely that was a poor transfer as well based on your theory

If Suarez is the problem then how did we manage to score so many goals last season under Kenny with a front 4 of Maxi, Suarez, Meireles and Kuyt ??

But this season we can't score with a front 4 of Carroll, Downing, Suarez and Henderson/Adam/Bellamy/Kuyt ??

Please explain that....

[Lecter]

Suarez has flaws same as all footballers but he has been brilliant for us from day one. Carroll and Downing have been ****ing woeful from day one. Adam IMO doesn't belong at this club and Henderson may indeed come good at some point but so far I have not been impressed with him.

Adam has more assists than Suarez (who was apparently bought to create goals and not score them) so he must be doing something right

[Craig_H]

They are different arguments though Craig

But people are blaming Suarez's misses on not having good players around him

Thats ****ing rubbish

Just as saying hes a No.10 and was bought as a provider so we can excuse his finishing is ****ing rubbish

I will say again Suarez's ability does give him major plus points just dont buy giving him excuses like those above

On a point by point basis:

1. I agree that the players around him, when it comes to missing easy chances, isnt such an issue. I wouldnt dismiss it ENTIRELY though, from the point of view that Suarez knows he is the main man and this will bring pressure with it. He knows that if he doesnt deliver, chances are we dont get the result. So under that kind of pressure (and yes, when you add his lack of composure), it becomes easier to miss.

2. He was brought to score goals, but also with the knowledge and understanding that he isnt an out-and-out goalscorer/finisher. He brings far more than that as a creative force. What we should have is Suarez's creativity (and ability to score, albeit not like a pure finisher) ALONGSIDE a goalscorer. That we dont have the latter, is not Suarez's fault.

3. They arent excuses. Nobody is saying that Suarez's finishing and goal return shouldnt be better. But there ARE factors that play a part and acknowledging them isnt making excuses, it's merely acknowledging the reality of things.

[Lecter]

If Suarez is the problem then how did we manage to score so many goals last season under Kenny with a front 4 of Maxi, Suarez, Meireles and Kuyt ??

But this season we can't score with a front 4 of Carroll, Downing, Suarez and Henderson/Adam/Bellamy/Kuyt ??

Please explain that....

We are creating far more chances than we did last year

But Suarez and Kuyt are as guilty of missing them as Downing & Carroll etc.....

Meireles is gone because he wanted to be gone Kenny couldnt do anything about that

Maxi isnt playing and thats one of the hardest things to figure out

I dont think you can blame tactics and signings on Suarez missing the chances hes got

They are as good a some of those he bagged last year and the same goes for Kuyt

Equally you could also say the same for Carroll hes missing chances he'd have buried last year

[~LFCHistory~]

We are creating far more chances than we did last year

But Suarez and Kuyt are as guilty of missing them as Downing & Carroll etc.....

Meireles is gone because he wanted to be gone Kenny couldnt do anything about that

Maxi isnt playing and thats one of the hardest things to figure out

I dont think you can blame tactics and signings on Suarez missing the chances hes got

They are as good a some of those he bagged last year and the same goes for Kuyt

Equally you could also say the same for Carroll hes missing chances he'd have buried last year

Cool.

[The Birdman]

Here's a thought, all posters on here would say Suarez is a better player and a better finisher than Carroll.
So wouldnt it then follow that Suarez should be converting more of his chances and scoring more goals than Carroll because after all he is a better player.
Wouldnt it also be fair to expect a better end product from Suarez seeing as everyone acknowledges he is a great player.

Suarez's finishing and decision making have been akin to a 18 year old playing his first season, too selfish, wrong decisions, panicing in front of goal and smashing it instead of rolling it into corners?
Suarez is a great player, has played well for us this season, at times very well but his end product has been terrible for a player of his quality and experience

Team mates and situations have nothing to do with decision making

[Craig_H]

Vast difference between being a better player and a better finisher.

[Mostar]

Come on he was only a young man at those clubs

They will have seen his progression and will have expected him to continue in that vein they would have expected him to go backwards or they wouldnt have shelled out the money they did for him

As for Ajax who else did he have playing alongside him that were so great??

I dont buy the excuses for Suarez one bit

People are readily making excuses for him because of his skills

The fact that Kenny has moaned about all of our players finishing clearly shows he expects more of them ALL

No one is buying excuses for him whatsoever but his goal scoring record is not the only thing that we should be focusing on as he does so much more and his overall contribution and impact he has created on our team should be included in this types of discussions.

He was not brought in to be a sole producer but to complement our primary striker and even though you don't agree, having better players around him and a striker that actually does his job would imo elevate his game and help him with his goal production.

In terms of Ajax he alwas had few players around him to spread the goals, stretch and create problems for defence as he wasn't seen as the only threat.

Pantelic, Hamdaoui, De Jong, Sulejmani they all scored in double digits while playing with him and to me that is very important to know when considering him and his playing time in Eredivisie.

Also as Craig said there is no guarantee that player coming from Dutch league will be able to translate those goal scoring records in PL and turn out to be another Nistelrooy or Alves, Kezman type of signing.

[Mostar]

None of the Ajax players in question, other than Eriksen would add anything to our squad, but at the level of the Dutch league, there was less pressure on Suarez to perform.