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    Death by a thousand cuts

    I rarely post long opinions on here, but I feel the need to vent my spleen right now.

    I don't expect everyone (maybe anyone!) to agree with me, but I've reached a point where I am deeply embarrassed by the on and off field position our club finds itself in. Almost every day at the moment there's something else that chips away further at our reputation (hence the thread title). The performances on the field are so far below what we expect that I've no answer to the banter from the Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U fans I'm surrounded by at work. And worse still all of them, regardless of club affiliation, think that the way that Kenny and Suarez have handled the whole Evra thing is appalling.

    I know most of you will say "**** 'em", but it's not that simple. We are Liverpool FC, a club with a reputation second to none, and who have always represented the positive side of the game. For years Man U fans have moaned about the "ABU" phenomenon. I'm afraid that it's rapidly becoming the "ABL" phenomenon instead. We can rail against the media, commentators and Twitter gob****es, but perception is everything, and the perception is that our managers, players and fans are refusing to acknowledge that Suarez has done anything wrong, when the rest of the world is convinced that he has.

    This is not to suggest that they are right and we are wrong, but there comes a point where you have to accept what has happened and move on, and Kenny in particular seems unable to do that. I love his passion for the club, and his staunch defence of one his players, but it's playing out very badly in public, making him look dogmatic and intractable. In a world where PR is everything, we're ****ing this up badly.

    With regard to the on field performances, I'm lucky enough to remember Kenny as both a player (one of the greatest ever), and as a manager first time round. When he became manager again I was over the moon, and the transformation in the team from Jan to May last year was a joy to watch. That's what makes this season even harder to take.

    The loss of Meireles was clearly a blow, as is Lucas's injury, but we all know that the money spent should have taken us to the next level, not set us back. Kenny & Comolli's work in three transfer windows has been well below par. Suarez is clearly a talent, but for all of his skill and trickery his end product has been piss poor. I really hope that will change soon. Carroll is clearly a £15m player starting to find form, so we pissed away £20m there. As far as the summer signings go, we have received value directly inversely proportional to the amount spent: Bellamy has been brilliant, Enrique great, Adam decent, Henderson inconsistent and Downing atrocious. That's no great advert for the scouting approach. The lack of any major investment in January unfortunately points to one of two conclusions: they don't recognise the shortcomings, or FSG don't have sufficient confidence in them to put money on the table. It may have been an overpriced market, but when the need is so stark then you have to do something.

    I really want Kenny to be the man to turn this around, but I'm no longer convinced that he is. His judgement has been found wanting several times recently, both on and off field. He is, and always will be, and absolute legend, not least for rescuing us from the clutches of the Bodge. However, this afternoon I found myself watching the first 30 minutes or so of the Spurs match, and couldn't help thinking that for a melty-faced illiterate wheeler-dealer media whore, Redknapp's assembled a team far greater than the sum of its parts that plays football that's great to watch. Pretty much how Kenny's Liverpool team of the late '80s was. And the opposite of what we have now.

    Maybe it's just me, on the back of a ridiculously stressful week, seeing everything in a negative light. But I can't help feeling that we're reaching a crisis point, and FSG don't seem the sort to leave these kind of things to chance. Barring a major shift in our results, I think that this summer will be one of huge and fundamental change.
    Last edited by James P; 12-02-12, 12:03 AM.

    #2
    What he has done would have never even been in the papers had it been in a Sunday Leageu game. Just because it's a big name, the media want to make an example of it, crucify him and do everything that helps them sell the papers.

    So, obviously the only way you get off is by pleading 'not guilty' to everything. Trust me, admitting even the slightest of guilt in this case would mean admitting total guilt.

    He could easily admit it but that won't make him a saint in the eyes of the so called 'neutrals' or the press. They'll take him for an easy ride every single time.

    They'll make him attend those stupid 'Kick It Out' campaigns and make him a figure head and pretty much make him live with the guilt all his life.

    I say **** them and **** them hard and deep. No admitting any kind of guilt. The media can piss all they want. As long as you maintain your stance hard enough and 'delusional enough' (like the other club fans say) you will get away with it in the long run.

    Trust me on this. It stinks and it's damaging our reputation but admitting guilt here will totally ruin it. It will pretty much make us the 'racist club' esp. if you come this faar and back out now.
    Patience when teased often, transforms into rage

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by James P View Post
      I rarely post long opinions on here, but I feel the need to vent my spleen right now.

      I don't expect everyone (maybe anyone!) to agree with me, but I've reached a point where I am deeply embarrassed by the on and off field position our club finds itself in. Almost every day at the moment there's something else that chips away further at our reputation (hence the thread title). The performances on the field are so far below what we expect that I've no answer to the banter from the Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U fans I'm surrounded by at work. And worse still all of them, regardless of club affiliation, think that the way that Kenny and Suarez have handled the whole Evra thing is appalling.

      I know most of you will say "**** 'em", but it's not that simple. We are Liverpool FC, a club with a reputation second to none, and who have always represented the positive side of the game. For years Man U fans have moaned about the "ABU" phenomenon. I'm afraid that it's rapidly becoming the "ABL" phenomenon instead. We can rail against the media, commentators and Twitter gob****es, but perception is everything, and the perception is that our managers, players and fans are refusing to acknowledge that Suarez has done anything wrong, when the rest of the world is convinced that he has.

      This is not to suggest that they are right and we are wrong, but there comes a point where you have to accept what has happened and move on, and Kenny in particular seems unable to do that. I love his passion for the club, and his staunch defence of one his players, but it's playing out very badly in public, making him look dogmatic and intractable. In a world where PR is everything, we're ****ing this up badly.

      With regard to the on field performances, I'm lucky enough to remember Kenny as both a player (one of the greatest ever), and as a manager first time round. When he became manager again I was over the moon, and the transformation in the team from Jan to May last year was a joy to watch. That's what makes this season even harder to take.

      The loss of Meireles was clearly a blow, as is Lucas's injury, but we all know that the money spent should have taken us to the next level, not set us back. Kenny & Comolli's work in three transfer windows has been well below par. Suarez is clearly a talent, but for all of his skill and trickery his end product has been piss poor. I really hope that will change soon. Carroll is clearly a £15m player starting to find form, so we pissed away £20m there. As far as the summer signings go, we have received value directly inversely proportional to the amount spent: Bellamy has been brilliant, Enrique great, Adam decent, Henderson inconsistent and Downing atrocious. That's no great advert for the scouting approach. The lack of any major investment in January unfortunately points to one of two conclusions: they don't recognise the shortcomings, or FSG don't have sufficient confidence in them to put money on the table. It may have been an overpriced market, but when the need is so stark then you have to do something.

      I really want Kenny to be the man to turn this around, but I'm no longer convinced that he is. His judgement has been found wanting several times recently, both on and off field. He is, and always will be, and absolute legend, not least for rescuing us from the clutches of the Bodge. However, this afternoon I found myself watching the first 30 minutes or so of the Spurs match, and couldn't help thinking that for a melty-faced illiterate wheeler-dealer media whore, Redknapp's assembled a team far greater than the sum of its parts that plays football that's great to watch. Pretty much how Kenny's Liverpool team of the late '80s was. And the opposite of what we have now.

      Maybe it's just me, on the back of a ridiculously stressful week, seeing everything in a negative light. But I can't help feeling that we're reaching a crisis point, and FSG don't seem the sort to leave these kind of things to chance. Barring a major shift in our results, I think that this summer will be one of huge and fundamental change.
      Well put fella

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by destinydude View Post
        What he has done would have never even been in the papers had it been in a Sunday Leageu game. Just because it's a big name, the media want to make an example of it, crucify him and do everything that helps them sell the papers.

        So, obviously the only way you get off is by pleading 'not guilty' to everything. Trust me, admitting even the slightest of guilt in this case would mean admitting total guilt.

        He could easily admit it but that won't make him a saint in the eyes of the so called 'neutrals' or the press. They'll take him for an easy ride every single time.

        They'll make him attend those stupid 'Kick It Out' campaigns and make him a figure head and pretty much make him live with the guilt all his life.

        I say **** them and **** them hard and deep. No admitting any kind of guilt. The media can piss all they want. As long as you maintain your stance hard enough and 'delusional enough' (like the other club fans say) you will get away with it in the long run.

        Trust me on this. It stinks and it's damaging our reputation but admitting guilt here will totally ruin it. It will pretty much make us the 'racist club' esp. if you come this faar and back out now.
        I don't disagree. I just think that approach could have been taken in a much more considered way. Kenny should have made his feelings clear at the time, and then refused to comment on it again. The T-shirt thing was, IMO, badly thought through. That and constant references like the one about him having been wrongly charged in the first place just reignite the controversy. The handshake thing should have been entirely avoided (like Terry & Ferdinand). The problem is that we made a big noise about his innocence at the time, citing other evidence that we thought would come to light, and saying that we'd definitely appeal, and then rolled over and took the ban, and have produced nothing since to refute the accusation. It certainly doesn't mean he's guilty, but to everyone else that's the obvious conclusion.

        Comment


          #5
          Bang out of order sorry. Why bring his transfers into it in this?
          Are we winning?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
            Bang out of order sorry. Why bring his transfers into it in this?
            Why not if he feels it's relevant to his position

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
              Bang out of order sorry. Why bring his transfers into it in this?
              Sorry, you've lost me. Bring his transfers into what? This isn't a post specifically about the Suarez thing, it's about the general malaise that is affecting the club right now. A fundamental part of that is the poor on field performances, which in turn are directly affected by the players that we have bought.

              As I said in the post, I don't expect everyone to feel the same. Just sharing my thoughts, that's all.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Norbert Dentressangle View Post
                Why not if he feels it's relevant to his position
                It's a thread which started about Luis Suarez ....
                Are we winning?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
                  It's a thread which started about Luis Suarez ....
                  Actually, the first point I make is about our ****ty performances.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by James P View Post
                    I rarely post long opinions on here, but I feel the need to vent my spleen right now.

                    I don't expect everyone (maybe anyone!) to agree with me, but I've reached a point where I am deeply embarrassed by the on and off field position our club finds itself in. Almost every day at the moment there's something else that chips away further at our reputation (hence the thread title). The performances on the field are so far below what we expect that I've no answer to the banter from the Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U fans I'm surrounded by at work. And worse still all of them, regardless of club affiliation, think that the way that Kenny and Suarez have handled the whole Evra thing is appalling.

                    I know most of you will say "**** 'em", but it's not that simple. We are Liverpool FC, a club with a reputation second to none, and who have always represented the positive side of the game. For years Man U fans have moaned about the "ABU" phenomenon. I'm afraid that it's rapidly becoming the "ABL" phenomenon instead. We can rail against the media, commentators and Twitter gob****es, but perception is everything, and the perception is that our managers, players and fans are refusing to acknowledge that Suarez has done anything wrong, when the rest of the world is convinced that he has.

                    This is not to suggest that they are right and we are wrong, but there comes a point where you have to accept what has happened and move on, and Kenny in particular seems unable to do that. I love his passion for the club, and his staunch defence of one his players, but it's playing out very badly in public, making him look dogmatic and intractable. In a world where PR is everything, we're ****ing this up badly.

                    With regard to the on field performances, I'm lucky enough to remember Kenny as both a player (one of the greatest ever), and as a manager first time round. When he became manager again I was over the moon, and the transformation in the team from Jan to May last year was a joy to watch. That's what makes this season even harder to take.

                    The loss of Meireles was clearly a blow, as is Lucas's injury, but we all know that the money spent should have taken us to the next level, not set us back. Kenny & Comolli's work in three transfer windows has been well below par. Suarez is clearly a talent, but for all of his skill and trickery his end product has been piss poor. I really hope that will change soon. Carroll is clearly a £15m player starting to find form, so we pissed away £20m there. As far as the summer signings go, we have received value directly inversely proportional to the amount spent: Bellamy has been brilliant, Enrique great, Adam decent, Henderson inconsistent and Downing atrocious. That's no great advert for the scouting approach. The lack of any major investment in January unfortunately points to one of two conclusions: they don't recognise the shortcomings, or FSG don't have sufficient confidence in them to put money on the table. It may have been an overpriced market, but when the need is so stark then you have to do something.

                    I really want Kenny to be the man to turn this around, but I'm no longer convinced that he is. His judgement has been found wanting several times recently, both on and off field. He is, and always will be, and absolute legend, not least for rescuing us from the clutches of the Bodge. However, this afternoon I found myself watching the first 30 minutes or so of the Spurs match, and couldn't help thinking that for a melty-faced illiterate wheeler-dealer media whore, Redknapp's assembled a team far greater than the sum of its parts that plays football that's great to watch. Pretty much how Kenny's Liverpool team of the late '80s was. And the opposite of what we have now.

                    Maybe it's just me, on the back of a ridiculously stressful week, seeing everything in a negative light. But I can't help feeling that we're reaching a crisis point, and FSG don't seem the sort to leave these kind of things to chance. Barring a major shift in our results, I think that this summer will be one of huge and fundamental change.

                    You've put all that really well man. Every lingering suspicion and doubt that loads of fans have are nailed there.

                    I'd go a stage further though and add in one more confusing fear - whether to be more apprehensive that FSG (1) will do something about it or (2) won't do something about it.

                    I wasn't cheerleading for Kenny to be brought back (although I have to admit I thought it was time for Rafa to go when he did and I also didn't expect Hodgson to turn out to be such a carcrash...) but it felt great when he did and the second half of last season was really uplifting.

                    And now we've gone back again it seems. Positively, we're building from the back with Agger fit, Skrtel transformed and a tough call on Carra seemingly having been made, having become a lynchpin of sorts we're missing Lucas massively... but against all that your point about the inverse value of the signings is compelling...

                    More than anything I want Kenny to succeed, I don't know enough to claim that he won't but if I was forced to bet and give a reason I'd say he won't because most managers don't win the league (and surely his absence from management is nearly akin to starting out) and exactly as you say, his handling of the Suarez situation - and the club certainly seem to be taking their lead from his seriously abrasive attitude - is all wrong. It's like he's not seeing the bigger picture at all and that his passion for LFC is actually damaging us or being let to damage us by PR people too in awe of him to tell him he's wrong. Is it as simple as the atmosphere in the club being "You can't tell Kenny Dalglish he's wrong!"??? Whuch brings me back to the whole what will FSG do or more immediately what do they think about the Suarez PR handling or what is their influence in the Suarez PR handling?

                    Awful times in so many ways and yet we're still in with a real chance of 4th, a cup final in a few weeks and we recently knocked the scum out of another cup!
                    Felching ≠ Gerbilling

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ****ty? Some results yes but performance wise we've been quite good on the whole.
                      Are we winning?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
                        ****ty? Some results yes but performance wise we've been quite good on the whole.
                        Okay, ****ty was a bit over the top. But scoring 29 goals in 25 games and having the worst chance conversion ratio in the league isn't great. Compared to the second half of last season the standard has been pretty dire.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
                          It's a thread which started about Luis Suarez ....
                          Death by a thousand cuts

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by NigelLG View Post
                            ****ty? Some results yes but performance wise we've been quite good on the whole.
                            Except that part, y'know, when we don't score goals...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Don't think it's the day to rehash (it's been done to death) our impotence in front of goal. Kenny is only a year in the job.
                              Are we winning?

                              Comment

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