Death by a thousand cuts

[el matador]

all clubs go through bad patches. were in one now. this season has been poor but were still only four points of fourth. weve just played city twice, united twice and spurs in our last few matches and havent done bad. were still in with a shot.

for the off field stuff, luis is innocent. I think liverpool fc not supporting him would perhaps make his position untenable because we are a multinational and multi.race football club. we cannot be seen to be supporting a racist player because its the lowest of the low. the damage to our club values, fans, sponsors would be seismic.

by employing blatant but questionable tactics liverpool fc made ir clear they dont support racism and they clearly believe luis isnt a racist.

the tshirts, the press conferences, official statements all support an innocent luis and are clearly positioned as anti racist. we dont support racists, and we deplore racism. we support luis because hes innocent and not a racist. the message is loud and clear and everyone knows it.

evra the little nob jockey set up suarez for that handshake shennanigans and luis just walked into his pathetic little trap.

if the press are having a field day who gives a ****. if other managers and players are having a pop so ****ing what. we have a strong stance on the anti racism topic and supported an innocent player.

if this is what kenny and fsg bring to the table I want more.

[Daniel 7]

James I have made similair points in other threads. Respect your opinion and agree with a lot of what you've put together

[mick the click]

all clubs go through bad patches. were in one now. this season has been poor but were still only four points of fourth. weve just played city twice, united twice and spurs in our last few matches and havent done bad. were still in with a shot.

for the off field stuff, luis is innocent. I think liverpool fc not supporting him would perhaps make his position untenable because we are a multinational and multi.race football club. we cannot be seen to be supporting a racist player because its the lowest of the low. the damage to our club values, fans, sponsors would be seismic.

by employing blatant but questionable tactics liverpool fc made ir clear they dont support racism and they clearly believe luis isnt a racist.

the tshirts, the press conferences, official statements all support an innocent luis and are clearly positioned as anti racist. we dont support racists, and we deplore racism. we support luis because hes innocent and not a racist. the message is loud and clear and everyone knows it.

evra the little nob jockey set up suarez for that handshake shennanigans and luis just walked into his pathetic little trap.

if the press are having a field day who gives a ****. if other managers and players are having a pop so ****ing what. we have a strong stance on the anti racism topic and supported an innocent player.

if this is what kenny and fsg bring to the table I want more.

Beautiful.

[MrMichael]

****ty? Some results yes but performance wise we've been quite good on the whole.

We've not been great by any means. We've not been scoring anywhere near enough goals, and this season we've by and large been very much unable to recapture the spark we had in the latter half of last season. Bolton away was very poor, as was Spurs away, some of the home performances have been very drab, and we were bad today. There has most definitely been an issue with the players brought in, by and large the inverse cost to performance ratio point is quite valid, and although some of those like Henderson and Carroll may well have positive futures in front of them, we paid too much for just currently unrealised potential. Its not all a complete disaster, but its also not a great picture either at the moment and despite a massive overhaul and relatively substantial outlay, we still look to have a lot of work to do to be genuine contenders. An awful lot of work.

Then there's the Suarez thing. I think we've been stitched up badly by various groups with various agendas here, but to some degree we have also handled the whole thing badly. It was a tricky situation anyway but we've been somewhat naive at the minimum, and allowed that horrible c*nt Fergie and his cronies to take more control of this than we could have, and portray us in a very unsympathetic light as a club. Its all been extremely unpleasant, rights or wrongs there is no way the club can't have a lot of regrets about how this has all happened.

Its just very depressing imo.

[Rich]

I rarely post long opinions on here, but I feel the need to vent my spleen right now.

I don't expect everyone (maybe anyone!) to agree with me, but I've reached a point where I am deeply embarrassed by the on and off field position our club finds itself in. Almost every day at the moment there's something else that chips away further at our reputation (hence the thread title). The performances on the field are so far below what we expect that I've no answer to the banter from the Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U fans I'm surrounded by at work. And worse still all of them, regardless of club affiliation, think that the way that Kenny and Suarez have handled the whole Evra thing is appalling.

I know most of you will say "**** 'em", but it's not that simple. We are Liverpool FC, a club with a reputation second to none, and who have always represented the positive side of the game. For years Man U fans have moaned about the "ABU" phenomenon. I'm afraid that it's rapidly becoming the "ABL" phenomenon instead. We can rail against the media, commentators and Twitter gob****es, but perception is everything, and the perception is that our managers, players and fans are refusing to acknowledge that Suarez has done anything wrong, when the rest of the world is convinced that he has.

This is not to suggest that they are right and we are wrong, but there comes a point where you have to accept what has happened and move on, and Kenny in particular seems unable to do that. I love his passion for the club, and his staunch defence of one his players, but it's playing out very badly in public, making him look dogmatic and intractable. In a world where PR is everything, we're ****ing this up badly.

With regard to the on field performances, I'm lucky enough to remember Kenny as both a player (one of the greatest ever), and as a manager first time round. When he became manager again I was over the moon, and the transformation in the team from Jan to May last year was a joy to watch. That's what makes this season even harder to take.

The loss of Meireles was clearly a blow, as is Lucas's injury, but we all know that the money spent should have taken us to the next level, not set us back. Kenny & Comolli's work in three transfer windows has been well below par. Suarez is clearly a talent, but for all of his skill and trickery his end product has been piss poor. I really hope that will change soon. Carroll is clearly a £15m player starting to find form, so we pissed away £20m there. As far as the summer signings go, we have received value directly inversely proportional to the amount spent: Bellamy has been brilliant, Enrique great, Adam decent, Henderson inconsistent and Downing atrocious. That's no great advert for the scouting approach. The lack of any major investment in January unfortunately points to one of two conclusions: they don't recognise the shortcomings, or FSG don't have sufficient confidence in them to put money on the table. It may have been an overpriced market, but when the need is so stark then you have to do something.

I really want Kenny to be the man to turn this around, but I'm no longer convinced that he is. His judgement has been found wanting several times recently, both on and off field. He is, and always will be, and absolute legend, not least for rescuing us from the clutches of the Bodge. However, this afternoon I found myself watching the first 30 minutes or so of the Spurs match, and couldn't help thinking that for a melty-faced illiterate wheeler-dealer media whore, Redknapp's assembled a team far greater than the sum of its parts that plays football that's great to watch. Pretty much how Kenny's Liverpool team of the late '80s was. And the opposite of what we have now.

Maybe it's just me, on the back of a ridiculously stressful week, seeing everything in a negative light. But I can't help feeling that we're reaching a crisis point, and FSG don't seem the sort to leave these kind of things to chance. Barring a major shift in our results, I think that this summer will be one of huge and fundamental change.

I don't agree with it all but great post.

[Fredo]

We've not been great yes but we're still in with a shout for 4th. What did people expect this season, to compete for the league?

[James P]

all clubs go through bad patches. were in one now. this season has been poor but were still only four points of fourth.

We're 14 points of third and 19 off the top spot. Personally, I don't want to see fourth as the pinnacle of our ambition, so on that basis it's not a great season.

for the off field stuff, luis is innocent. I think liverpool fc not supporting him would perhaps make his position untenable because we are a multinational and multi.race football club. we cannot be seen to be supporting a racist player because its the lowest of the low.

But according to the press, and the vast majority of other clubs' fans, he is guilty and we ARE supporting a player guilty of racist remarks. That's what is so damaging right now.

the tshirts, the press conferences, official statements all support an innocent luis and are clearly positioned as anti racist. we dont support racists, and we deplore racism. we support luis because hes innocent and not a racist. the message is loud and clear and everyone knows it.

Again, the majority of non-LFC fans are seeing a very different message to the one you describe above.

if the press are having a field day who gives a ****.

We do. We're a commercial organisation, and mud sticks. If we develop too much of a reputation, existing sponsors will start to feel the pressure, and we can whistle for a decent stadium naming deal.

we have a strong stance on the anti racism topic and supported an innocent player.

Again, that's not how others see it.

[Rich]

We've not been great yes but we're still in with a shout for 4th. What did people expect this season, to compete for the league?

I don't think anyone expected the league but some of our purchases and decisions have been poor.

Downing was never a £20m player and never a LFC player.

Not bringing in quality cover for Lucas in January was a poor decision IMO.

I'm still right behind Kenny but his belief in some of our players is misplaced. Plus I've yet to see what Comolli has brought to the club. Every single signing has been pretty obvious.

[MrMichael]

We've not been great yes but we're still in with a shout for 4th. What did people expect this season, to compete for the league?

No. Not at all. But we're nowhere near that. We're also behind a selling club who have made quite a substantial transfer profit recently (thanks to us) and have players like James Perch and Danny Simpson as regular starters, plus the worst Arsenal and Chelsea sides in many a year. Realistically, we're not getting 4th this year, I don't mean to be a depressive ****, and we could still win trophies & get into Europe which would be great, but in terms of form, and if you look at the teams on paper, we're not CL material.

Whether we should be that or not is another matter, but we have definitely spent an awful lot of money on players, some of whom really aren't very good. Carroll and Downing for £55m does not inspire confidence really. That's not a criticism of anyone in particular, and I'm certainly not calling for anyone's head or anything, but denying its not at least a bit worrying is, really, sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalalala".

[James P]

We've not been great yes but we're still in with a shout for 4th. What did people expect this season, to compete for the league?

At the start of the season, probably not. But as no-one is really running away with it this year, I'd have expected to be a lot closer. Newcastle should never be ahead of us, and I'd have expected to be a lot closer to Spurs. Chelsea and Arsenal (according to the fans I work with) have been really disappointing, and yet are still ahead of us. CL is there for the taking, and yet we're still falling quite a way short.

[mick the click]

We're 14 points of third and 19 off the top spot. Personally, I don't want to see fourth as the pinnacle of our ambition, so on that basis it's not a great season.

But according to the press, and the vast majority of other clubs' fans, he is guilty and we ARE supporting a player guilty of racist remarks. That's what is so damaging right now.

Again, the majority of non-LFC fans are seeing a very different message to the one you describe above.

We do. We're a commercial organisation, and mud sticks. If we develop too much of a reputation, existing sponsors will start to feel the pressure, and we can whistle for a decent stadium naming deal.


Again, that's not how others see it.

Sorry mate - I don't give a flying **** how any other 'fans' or hacks see it. We will defend what is right.

Suarez is no angel - but if he was he wouldn't be playing footy - but he's certainly not a racist.

Get a grip - people are trying to make money off LFC here - primarily the 'media' filth. Purplenose is just is just acting true to form and feeding a frenzy that suits his agenda.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should pander to the pressure from a biased, or at the least, uninformed, press following the result of a deeply and fundamentally flawed FA diktat?

[BigChief]

Sorry, you've lost me. Bring his transfers into what? This isn't a post specifically about the Suarez thing, it's about the general malaise that is affecting the club right now. A fundamental part of that is the poor on field performances, which in turn are directly affected by the players that we have bought.

As I said in the post, I don't expect everyone to feel the same. Just sharing my thoughts, that's all.

FWIW, and its worth little I've realised on here, I agree. Maybe you need a similar signature as mine.

[Fredo]

No. Not at all. But we're nowhere near that. We're also behind a selling club who have made quite a substantial transfer profit recently (thanks to us) and have players like James Perch and Danny Simpson as regular starters, plus the worst Arsenal and Chelsea sides in many a year. Realistically, we're not getting 4th this year, I don't mean to be a depressive ****, and we could still win trophies & get into Europe which would be great, but in terms of form, and if you look at the teams on paper, we're not CL material.

Whether we should be that or not is another matter, but we have definitely spent an awful lot of money on players, some of whom really aren't very good. Carroll and Downing for £55m does not inspire confidence really. That's not a criticism of anyone in particular, and I'm certainly not calling for anyone's head or anything, but denying its not at least a bit worrying is, really, sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalalala".

We've made mistakes in the transfer market yes but no one is sticking fingers in their ears here. Still in with a shout for 4th and still in the cups. That's progress compared to the shambles last year.

[James P]

Sorry mate - I don't give a flying **** how any other 'fans' or hacks see it. We will defend what is right.

Suarez is no angel - but if he was he wouldn't be playing footy - but he's certainly not a racist.

Get a grip - people are trying to make money off LFC here - primarily the 'media' filth. Purplenose is just is just acting true to form and feeding a frenzy that suits his agenda.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should pander to the pressure from a biased, or at the least, uninformed, press following the result of a deeply and fundamentally flawed FA diktat?

Not at all, as I've said earlier in this thread. But what we have done is a million miles from a dignified refusal to accept the judgement. It's the nature of our objection that's causing as much negative reaction as the objection itself. Ferguson is finding a lot easier to feed the frenzy because we're allowing him to. This afternoon he was able to take the moral high ground over the handshake thing, and seeing him on the moral high ground makes me feel nauseous.

[little dave hedgehog]

I don't disagree. I just think that approach could have been taken in a much more considered way. Kenny should have made his feelings clear at the time, and then refused to comment on it again.

this. i don't really care about other fans opinions, but i do care that we don't seem to be able to keep our own house in order. not shaking hands was petulant and childish in the extreme from the players. but i'm way less pissed off about the missing handshake itself than the fact that it means i'm going to have to sit through the fall out of this ugly situation for at least another week when i'd rather we could all just move on and think about the football again. (which has been truly dire at times this season.)

imo even if the handshake would have been essentially meaningless, suarez and dalglish are dragging this out needlessly. i still hope they can bring us fourth place and a cup or two, but i could certainly live without the hysteria.