Has the sabremetrics thing worked?

[Oberon]

Snappy title!

We went out last year and got a load of players who create chances according to the stats.

This year we have the third highest amount of shots/attempts at goal. but only 38 goals

What we didn't do was get someone to score those goals.

So will we continue on this route or is it a total waste of mathematical effort?

[Pablo]

No.

[Shaggy]

No.

[spud_gun]

No.

It has no part in football. At least it has no part in the type of spending that we engaged in during the summer.

Sabermetrics as far as Beane and the A's were concerned involved finding good value players for a small market team.

We're not a small market team, we didn't engage in 'sabermetrics' last summer.

Lazy journalisim because we happened to be owned by the same people who own the Boston Red Sox

[RichC]

no.

[CJ]

is buying players who create chances sabermetrics?

i am not sure it is or if it is its sabermetrics at its very very most basic

[The Birdman]

Surely in theory yes it has because we've still created loads of chances.
Fans slating Downing's assist record ignore the fact that Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt, Kelly to name but 4 have all missed absolute sitters from 6 yards out.

Has Downing been good enough? all us fans would say no but the 'stats' say that he has provided a lot of clear scoring opportunities or however they describe it.

There was also a stat on twitter flying about that Adam had 'created' 39 chances from set plays this season which I cannot believe as he hasn't beaten the 1st man that many times.

Does anyone on here know how they define a 'chance' or 'clear goalscoring opportunity' or whatever they say it is?
Does it mean we've had 39 attempts on goal from Adam set pieces for example??

[Lecter]

is buying players who create chances sabermetrics?

i am not sure it is or if it is its sabermetrics at its very very most basic

Yes

Sabermetrics is the science of using stats to buy the right players

Moneyball is the one where you buy players with value and then sell them at a profit later

Sabermetrics is generally used in conjunction with their moneyball theory at the Oakland A's and others

I think virtually all of our purchases were indentified using sabermetrics but few if any of them have any relation to moneyball

[meffin]

Clearly not

[Mattshark]

is buying players who create chances sabermetrics?

i am not sure it is or if it is its sabermetrics at its very very most basic

It isn't sabremetrics in the slightest, basic doesn't cover what it'd be described as if it was. Kenny chose his targets and that is who we went for.

If we looked at the players through raw data, then you have to think who ever did it doesn't understand stats.

[Vermilion]

But we bought players that scored goals for the clubs they were at.

How do you use Sabermetrics to find out if a player that scores goals in Holland, or for Newcastle, won't do the same for LFC.

It's been an ongoing theme for lfc too, we buy goal scoring strikers that when they sign for us forget how to score even the most simplest of chances.

After all these years, there must be more to it, our strikers have been woeful in front of goal, except for one that shall remain unamed, and even he went sour..

Thing that gets me is, we bought Kuyt and Suarez, players that were not just goal scorers, they were prolific goal scorers, now i know they've moved to a harder league, but that should mean it's harder to get so many chances, it should'nt mean they can't hit a cows arse etc etc when a simple chance presents itself, and yet they have done this time and time again, so much so that it saw Kuyt taken out of the striker role for his LFC career.

It's happened to others too, noit just Kuyt and Suarez, even Morientes missed absolute sitters during his short spell here, Crouchie chipped in with a few, but after a drought of epic proportions, and Rafa sticking with him whatever.

What the hell is going on with our Strikers! It's sooooo annoying, because we ARE and mostly always have created chances for all of them.

Funny thing is, the one player that did score lots of goals, and even broke some of our records.....was'nt even a prolific goal getter before we signed him.

[BootRoom]

I don't think we use sabermetrics to anywhere near the extent some fans seem to think we do; it's been stated on numerous occassions that there just isn't the same scope in football to use them as there is in baseball.

[CJ]

Yes

Sabermetrics is the science of using stats to buy the right players

Moneyball is the one where you buy players with value and then sell them at a profit later

Sabermetrics is generally used in conjunction with their moneyball theory at the Oakland A's and others

I think virtually all of our purchases were indentified using sabermetrics but few if any of them have any relation to moneyball

It isn't sabremetrics in the slightest, basic doesn't cover what it'd be described as if it was. Kenny chose his targets and that is who we went for.

If we looked at the players through raw data, then you have to think who ever did it doesn't understand stats.

sorry i was getting sabermetrics and moneyball mixed up in part. However i think i err towards matts view. I would hope if we were taking a proper statistical approach i would want a bit more analysis than no of chances created. I would hope we would look at how we want to play and see where the chances were created (ie which part of the pitch) etc. even that i view as a bit too simple an analysis

[Mattshark]

sorry i was getting sabermetrics and moneyball mixed up in part. However i think i err towards matts view. I would hope if we were taking a proper statistical approach i would want a bit more analysis than no of chances created. I would hope we would look at how we want to play and see where the chances were created (ie which part of the pitch) etc. even that i view as a bit too simple an analysis

I would agree, there are so many factors that need looking at, to suggest just looking at chances created by volume is sabremetrics is just not understanding sabremetrics or stats.

[Corndog]

Stats can be useful but if they are used alone I find they can mislead and distort things. Ie we may be 3rd highest in the league for chance creation but having watched the majority of those created chances many of them were not clear cut. We lack creativity when it comes to finishing passing plays off.

Personally I think most ppl know a good player when they see one irregardless of stats, that's what Bellamy advocated a few months back before the cup final when he said I don't need medals to show people how good I am, they already know that in their own mind from watching me!