Simon Mignolet

[Alex]

Kahn surely and not to forget Tim 'Bucket o spunk' Howard

Well Kahn is from the Seaman era, and Tim Howard doesnt play for a top side.

[Kenneth]

I think we just went through a poor generation of keepers which is why United, Arsenal and even us have struggled over long periods to find a decent one.

There aren't many keepers in the world who have it all. For some reason, the few who do exist don't play for a club in the north of England who regularly compete for Europe League places and haven't won a title for 25 years.

[Rich]

I think you can argue the case that shotstopping isn't the most important attribute for an elite goalkeeper. Whereas it is for any other goalkeeper, making them a very rare breed.

Communication skills, consistency, distribution, concentration and authority all rank higher IMO.

[G]

Shot stopping is the bare minimum for a goalkeeper. Agree, It's the rest that sets the best apart. Simon isn't up to it.

[Kenneth]

Shot stopping is the bare minimum for a goalkeeper. Agree, It's the rest that sets the best apart. Simon isn't up to it.

That's a lazy cliché. Like saying shooting is the bare minimum for a striker, as if it's a binary thing. Yeah, he can shoot, tick.

[Corndog]

I'd take an excellent shot stopper like Mignolet over the Reina in his last 2 years at Liverpool, who was great with his feet but rubbish at stopping shots.

Mignolet saves many more goals than he is responsible for. If a better keeper is available for the right price then maybe you'd take a look at it. But it's not a priority position that needs strengthening imo.

[Alex]

That's a lazy cliché. Like saying shooting is the bare minimum for a striker, as if it's a binary thing. Yeah, he can shoot, tick.

It kind of is for a goalkeeper though. If they cant save shots they are useless as a keeper. If a striker cant shoot then he can do other things (Although its not ideal)

Its not like a goalie can make up for his deficiency in that area by running more and working for the team.

[Big-Red-Ed]

I'm not so sure about our Mig. He has a nervous indecisiveness which spreads to the back 4. Superb shot stopper though. He might improve with more reliability in front of him.

[Fosterbloke]

I'm not so sure about our Mig. He has a nervous indecisiveness which spreads to the back 4. Superb shot stopper though. He might improve with more reliability in front of him.

Conversely it could be the nervous indecisiveness of the back four which spreads to Mig.

[Kenneth]

It kind of is for a goalkeeper though. If they cant save shots they are useless as a keeper. If a striker cant shoot then he can do other things (Although its not ideal)

Its not like a goalie can make up for his deficiency in that area by running more and working for the team.

Every keeper can make saves, it's a question of which saves they can make. Mig makes saves that most keepers in the league will never make. If he has a deficiency claiming corners for example then it is possible to make up for it in other areas eg, by centre backs taking responsibility from set pieces.

If we can find a goalkeeper who's shot stopping is as good as Migs and who is a more rounded keeper in other areas then we should get them in if we can. We should bear in mind however that his attributes have earned us more points than his deficiencies have cost this season and we should appreciate what we've got.

[Hemingway]

The weird thing about the 'Mignolet is a great shot-stopper' narrative: he really hasn't been for us. I'm not challenging his ability here, just his performance, but what type of things would we expect from a great shot-stopper? Saving a lot of shots, probably. And saving shots that other goalkeepers wouldn't save. In total, probably just conceding fewer goals than an average goalkeeper would concede from the same shots. And Mignolet hasn't done those things here.

His save percentage has been below the PL average for both of his years here, plus this season so far, and in each of those seasons we've let in more goals than we 'should've' based on the location and type of the shots we've faced. Mignolet's never put together a De Gea-like dominant spell of winning us points, which is what I'd really expect from a great shot-stopper, but he's actually been pretty poor at it for long stretches.

Just for comparison, in Pepe's last year, when he supposedly couldn't save anything, his save% was 68%. Mignolet's yet to better that here. We let in about three more goals than the models said we 'should've' that year, based on shot location/type; we let in eight more than expected in Mig's first year, and seven more than expected last season.

He's not the only factor in those things, but he is the biggest. It's probably more accurate to say that Mignolet can be a great shot-stopper than to say that he is one. Maybe the defence has held him back, maybe the manager - I suspect those funks he gets in whenever anything goes against him that ruin his next three matches play a really big role. But the point is that, for whatever reason, he's had bad runs of form. And if he could do other things - if he could command his box, or if he had great distribution, or if he communicated really well - he'd still be bringing value even when things weren't going well for him in goal. But he can't do those things, so for long spells he's been pretty much a non-entity.

The thing is, I don't think save% and expected goals performance is that indicative of shot-stopping ability. There's too much chance involved. But they're entirely indicative of shot-stopping performance, and that illustrates the disconnect between those two things. Shot-stopping, though definitely a skill and hugely valuable, is really pretty random. It's very easy to get on hot or cold streaks that have nothing to do with the keeper's ability, which is why I think it's a little less valuable than everyone's assuming. It's also why, when we look for real competition for Mignolet, whenever that time comes, we should be focusing on a lot of things other than just shot-stopping - distribution, communication, and commanding the box, all of which are much more consistent.

But everyone gets a new start under Klopp, and Mignolet made the most of his. The more compact defence should help. And since Mig is so much of a confidence player, maybe Klopp's motivational style unlocks something in him. Who knows. There's a keeper in there, somewhere.

[Big-Red-Ed]

Conversely it could be the nervous indecisiveness of the back four which spreads to Mig.

Maybe. We'll find out soon enough when changes are made. Martin first out I think.

[RedReet]

The weird thing about the 'Mignolet is a great shot-stopper' narrative: he really hasn't been for us. I'm not challenging his ability here, just his performance, but what type of things would we expect from a great shot-stopper? Saving a lot of shots, probably. And saving shots that other goalkeepers wouldn't save. In total, probably just conceding fewer goals than an average goalkeeper would concede from the same shots. And Mignolet hasn't done those things here.

His save percentage has been below the PL average for both of his years here, plus this season so far, and in each of those seasons we've let in more goals than we 'should've' based on the location and type of the shots we've faced. Mignolet's never put together a De Gea-like dominant spell of winning us points, which is what I'd really expect from a great shot-stopper, but he's actually been pretty poor at it for long stretches.

Just for comparison, in Pepe's last year, when he supposedly couldn't save anything, his save% was 68%. Mignolet's yet to better that here. We let in about three more goals than the models said we 'should've' that year, based on shot location/type; we let in eight more than expected in Mig's first year, and seven more than expected last season.

He's not the only factor in those things, but he is the biggest. It's probably more accurate to say that Mignolet can be a great shot-stopper than to say that he is one. Maybe the defence has held him back, maybe the manager - I suspect those funks he gets in whenever anything goes against him that ruin his next three matches play a really big role. But the point is that, for whatever reason, he's had bad runs of form. And if he could do other things - if he could command his box, or if he had great distribution, or if he communicated really well - he'd still be bringing value even when things weren't going well for him in goal. But he can't do those things, so for long spells he's been pretty much a non-entity.

The thing is, I don't think save% and expected goals performance is that indicative of shot-stopping ability. There's too much chance involved. But they're entirely indicative of shot-stopping performance, and that illustrates the disconnect between those two things. Shot-stopping, though definitely a skill and hugely valuable, is really pretty random. It's very easy to get on hot or cold streaks that have nothing to do with the keeper's ability, which is why I think it's a little less valuable than everyone's assuming. It's also why, when we look for real competition for Mignolet, whenever that time comes, we should be focusing on a lot of things other than just shot-stopping - distribution, communication, and commanding the box, all of which are much more consistent.

But everyone gets a new start under Klopp, and Mignolet made the most of his. The more compact defence should help. And since Mig is so much of a confidence player, maybe Klopp's motivational style unlocks something in him. Who knows. There's a keeper in there, somewhere.

Excellent post.

[Fierce]

The weird thing about the 'Mignolet is a great shot-stopper' narrative: he really hasn't been for us. I'm not challenging his ability here, just his performance, but what type of things would we expect from a great shot-stopper? Saving a lot of shots, probably. And saving shots that other goalkeepers wouldn't save. In total, probably just conceding fewer goals than an average goalkeeper would concede from the same shots. And Mignolet hasn't done those things here.

His save percentage has been below the PL average for both of his years here, plus this season so far, and in each of those seasons we've let in more goals than we 'should've' based on the location and type of the shots we've faced. Mignolet's never put together a De Gea-like dominant spell of winning us points, which is what I'd really expect from a great shot-stopper, but he's actually been pretty poor at it for long stretches.

Just for comparison, in Pepe's last year, when he supposedly couldn't save anything, his save% was 68%. Mignolet's yet to better that here. We let in about three more goals than the models said we 'should've' that year, based on shot location/type; we let in eight more than expected in Mig's first year, and seven more than expected last season.

He's not the only factor in those things, but he is the biggest. It's probably more accurate to say that Mignolet can be a great shot-stopper than to say that he is one. Maybe the defence has held him back, maybe the manager - I suspect those funks he gets in whenever anything goes against him that ruin his next three matches play a really big role. But the point is that, for whatever reason, he's had bad runs of form. And if he could do other things - if he could command his box, or if he had great distribution, or if he communicated really well - he'd still be bringing value even when things weren't going well for him in goal. But he can't do those things, so for long spells he's been pretty much a non-entity.

The thing is, I don't think save% and expected goals performance is that indicative of shot-stopping ability. There's too much chance involved. But they're entirely indicative of shot-stopping performance, and that illustrates the disconnect between those two things. Shot-stopping, though definitely a skill and hugely valuable, is really pretty random. It's very easy to get on hot or cold streaks that have nothing to do with the keeper's ability, which is why I think it's a little less valuable than everyone's assuming. It's also why, when we look for real competition for Mignolet, whenever that time comes, we should be focusing on a lot of things other than just shot-stopping - distribution, communication, and commanding the box, all of which are much more consistent.

But everyone gets a new start under Klopp, and Mignolet made the most of his. The more compact defence should help. And since Mig is so much of a confidence player, maybe Klopp's motivational style unlocks something in him. Who knows. There's a keeper in there, somewhere.

Seriously man, post more

[G]

The weird thing about the 'Mignolet is a great shot-stopper' narrative: he really hasn't been for us. I'm not challenging his ability here, just his performance, but what type of things would we expect from a great shot-stopper? Saving a lot of shots, probably. And saving shots that other goalkeepers wouldn't save. In total, probably just conceding fewer goals than an average goalkeeper would concede from the same shots. And Mignolet hasn't done those things here.

His save percentage has been below the PL average for both of his years here, plus this season so far, and in each of those seasons we've let in more goals than we 'should've' based on the location and type of the shots we've faced. Mignolet's never put together a De Gea-like dominant spell of winning us points, which is what I'd really expect from a great shot-stopper, but he's actually been pretty poor at it for long stretches.

Just for comparison, in Pepe's last year, when he supposedly couldn't save anything, his save% was 68%. Mignolet's yet to better that here. We let in about three more goals than the models said we 'should've' that year, based on shot location/type; we let in eight more than expected in Mig's first year, and seven more than expected last season.

He's not the only factor in those things, but he is the biggest. It's probably more accurate to say that Mignolet can be a great shot-stopper than to say that he is one. Maybe the defence has held him back, maybe the manager - I suspect those funks he gets in whenever anything goes against him that ruin his next three matches play a really big role. But the point is that, for whatever reason, he's had bad runs of form. And if he could do other things - if he could command his box, or if he had great distribution, or if he communicated really well - he'd still be bringing value even when things weren't going well for him in goal. But he can't do those things, so for long spells he's been pretty much a non-entity.

The thing is, I don't think save% and expected goals performance is that indicative of shot-stopping ability. There's too much chance involved. But they're entirely indicative of shot-stopping performance, and that illustrates the disconnect between those two things. Shot-stopping, though definitely a skill and hugely valuable, is really pretty random. It's very easy to get on hot or cold streaks that have nothing to do with the keeper's ability, which is why I think it's a little less valuable than everyone's assuming. It's also why, when we look for real competition for Mignolet, whenever that time comes, we should be focusing on a lot of things other than just shot-stopping - distribution, communication, and commanding the box, all of which are much more consistent.

But everyone gets a new start under Klopp, and Mignolet made the most of his. The more compact defence should help. And since Mig is so much of a confidence player, maybe Klopp's motivational style unlocks something in him. Who knows. There's a keeper in there, somewhere.

Brilliant again

Very easy for people to get into a narrative without ever looking if the facts back it up. Sakho being ****e on the ball is one of them, Reina being unable to save much is another. We can add Migs "brilliance" at shot stopping to the list imo.