Evaluating Rodgers' 'Project'

[danperkins]

Only takes a second to score a goal!

[Fan65]

Sorry I don't agree with that

FSG listened to the fans and signed up Kenny and he wasted a lot of money. That is what we are paying for now.

We spent a lot of money back then without even having a plan by the look of it. Player after player was signed and played out of position. Kenny made players worse, not better. Signing up Kenny was a very big mistake.

To much about PR and please the fans after our **** owners Gillett and Hicks.

Kenny got us to two cup finals including winning a major trophy.

Kenny was sacked as the scape goat over the Saurez incident

[danperkins]

I sense a thread meltdown.... well on top of the thread meltdown that already exists.

[TheElephantMan]

Kenny got us to two cup finals including winning a major trophy.

Kenny was sacked as the scape goat over the Saurez incident

On reflection the second coming was quite disastrous, it has set us back. I think Kenny was sacked because he wasted lots of money and wasn't taking us in a positive direction. I don't blame him for the mess he left behind, he was trying his best. I think the naivety of the owners was a significant factor in that period.

[Shaggy]

Kenny got us to two cup finals including winning a major trophy.

Kenny was sacked as the scape goat over the Saurez incident

That's not true - he was sacked because unfortunately he wasted a truckload of money on dross and led us to an 8th place finish and a paltry 52 points. Sad but true.

[MrMichael]

Kenny got us to two cup finals including winning a major trophy.

Kenny was sacked as the scape goat over the Saurez incident

Nah. Kenny was sacked because it was obviously going wrong on the pitch; he had been party to massive overpaying for average players and 2 domestic cup runs couldn't remotely paper over the ever-widening cracks. Legend, and probable best-ever player for our club though he is, his sacking was 100% the right decision at the right time and imo only had a little to do with the way the club dealt with the Suarez-Evra affair.

Edit - ninja'd damn it. Twice

[Sarb]

On reflection the second coming was quite disastrous, it has set us back. I think Kenny was sacked because he wasted lots of money and wasn't taking us in a positive direction. I don't blame him for the mess he left behind, he was trying his best. I think the naivety of the owners was a significant factor in that period.

But I don't really see that. They appointed a Director of Football who they had to trust. After Kenny's first 6 months I think they had pretty much zero chance of not giving him a contract for an extended period. The run of results was brilliant and would have been outrage if they replaced him that summer. They backed their men and the men wasted a huge amount of money that set us back many, many years imo

[Rowan]

I think a useful cut off can be drawn at when Abramovich came to the PL. After that the model doesn't seem to have really worked in terms of winning with United, Chelsea and City all using buying power more than development of young players.

United being the closest to a viable model to follow and they started with a league winning team. It will be interesting to see how they continue with Moyes rather Fergusson trying to hold back the forces of time and comparative under investment.

There is definitely something to Arns argument that in the PL foreign investment has made the model of Dortmund look less likely to succeed. However, it is pretty clear that the PL teams have not been performing well in the CL in the last couple of seasons (generally, even if Chelsea won it). Suggesting that perhaps the money is not being used all that well and alternative approaches might be able to compete.

That's it though! Someone made a comment that the best Bundesliga teams will make it into the champions league each year as the format of the league allows that. It gets them in but they still need to perform while there. 3 of the last 4 champions league finalists have been from the Bundesliga. Arguably the best team in the world from the last 10 years is made up by 50% of players who have come through its youth ranks and even the Mancs can regularly offer the likes of Wellbeck, Evans, Cleverley etc starts as well as other younger types like Rafael etc. The model doesn't need to be ripped up. Just hybrided a bit and certainly not to the hysterical level that some think, no?

[danperkins]

That's not true - he was sacked because unfortunately he wasted a truckload of money on dross and led us to an 8th place finish and a paltry 52 points. Sad but true.

[Barnyard]

That's it though! Someone made a comment that the best Bundesliga teams will make it into the champions league each year as the format of the league allows that. It gets them in but they still need to perform while there. 3 of the last 4 champions league finalists have been from the Bundesliga. Arguably the best team in the world from the last 10 years is made up by 50% of players who have come through its youth ranks and even the Mancs can regularly offer the likes of Wellbeck, Evans, Cleverley etc starts as well as other younger types like Rafael etc. The model doesn't need to be ripped up. Just hybrided a bit and certainly not to the hysterical level that some think, no?

[Gibbo]

Jesus Christ this thread, Is Arn leaving? Is Suarez leaving? Is Suarez still vole? Did Arn and Suarez both break their promises to the fans?

Mods Mods

Can someone change the thread title to Luis Suarez/Arn the Elk please?

[Arn]

That's it though! Someone made a comment that the best Bundesliga teams will make it into the champions league each year as the format of the league allows that. It gets them in but they still need to perform while there. 3 of the last 4 champions league finalists have been from the Bundesliga. Arguably the best team in the world from the last 10 years is made up by 50% of players who have come through its youth ranks and even the Mancs can regularly offer the likes of Wellbeck, Evans, Cleverley etc starts as well as other younger types like Rafael etc. The model doesn't need to be ripped up. Just hybrided a bit and certainly not to the hysterical level that some think, no?

The Mancs and Barcelona still spent big on certain players. They have many very expensive players sitting on the bench.

We shouldn't look at Dortmund as an example as FSG and Rodgers mentioned as we should do. We should look at how it works in the PL. What you need to do in the PL.

The Bundesliga is the Bundesliga and the PL the PL.

Different leagues with totally different rules when it comes down to ownership etc.

I can understand why Suarez for example want to leave. How big chance do we have to qualify for the CL in the near future if we don't strenghten the starting XI a lot? He can't be that impressed by our signings so far.

We are Liverpool FC and not Swansea or Norwich.

Liverpool FC exist to win trophies.

We also made a mistake last summer when we signed up Rodgers that needed a learning year. We are paying for that decision now. Wrong time to sign up a manager that needed a learning year. If we had played in the CL then it may have been the right decision but not for a club that needed to improve straight away.

FSG do make some very big mistakes. Rafa did a few big mistakes.

I don't think FSG have got that many big decisions right so far.

[dom9]

The Mancs and Barcelona still spent big on certain players. They have many very expensive players sitting on the bench.

We shouldn't look at Dortmund as an example as FSG and Rodgers mentioned as we should do. We should look at how it works in the PL. What you need to do in the PL.

The Bundesliga is the Bundesliga and the PL the PL.

Different leagues with totally different rules when it comes down to ownership etc.

I can understand why Suarez for example want to leave. How big chance do we have to qualify for the CL in the near future if we don't strenghten the starting XI a lot? He can't be that impressed by our signings so far.

We are Liverpool FC and not Swansea or Norwich.

Liverpool FC exist to win trophies.

We also made a mistake last summer when we signed up Rodgers that needed a learning year. We are paying for that decision now. Wrong time to sign up a manager that needed a learning year. If we had played in the CL then it may have been the right decision but not for a club that needed to improve straight away.

FSG do make some very big mistakes. Rafa did a few big mistakes.

I don't think FSG have got that many big decisions right so far.

I think you made a good point earlier in that FSG listened to the fans when appointing Kenny, and that was indeed a mistake.

If they have learned from that mistake, they shouldn't be acting on our suggestions any more.

[Imy]

I think a useful cut off can be drawn at when Abramovich came to the PL. After that the model doesn't seem to have really worked in terms of winning with United, Chelsea and City all using buying power more than development of young players.

United being the closest to a viable model to follow and they started with a league winning team. It will be interesting to see how they continue with Moyes rather Fergusson trying to hold back the forces of time and comparative under investment.

There is definitely something to Arns argument that in the PL foreign investment has made the model of Dortmund look less likely to succeed. However, it is pretty clear that the PL teams have not been performing well in the CL in the last couple of seasons (generally, even if Chelsea won it). Suggesting that perhaps the money is not being used all that well and alternative approaches might be able to compete.

[Sarb]

I don't get the learning year thing. Does Rodgers need to have managed in the Premiership for 2 years to be considered for our job?

I don't think we had a side anywhere near good enough to finish 4th when he took over, we were well off, we still are imo.

Maybe last year FSG decided that they weren't going to go for any more quick fixes or managers who spend a huge amount in the hope of getting Top 4 and us being stuffed if we didn't make it. I guess it was the summer they decided to work to a longer-term plan which wasn't reliant on making Top 4 in the first year.