Liverpool Defence

[BootRoom]

Maybe we should revert to having the centre-backs standing on the keeper's toes and not moving out of the 18 yard box.

[baronvonskidmark]

Perhaps you're right mate. You can imagine the likes of Rafa and Mourinho spending endless time on it though. I think you made a very good point about our centre backs not working together. Somebody posted on rawk that it could be a case where Rodgers needs to sit down with Lovren, Sakho, Skrtel etc and say Lovren you lead the line and Skrtel you follow his lead. I know it sounds basic but for me at times it didn't look like Lovren and Skrtel were singing from the same page.

Totally agree and it is worrying. I hope that Rodgers can get across to them the idea that we should work as a unit.

I think like you that Lovren would be good at leading the line; the only worry there might be if we were attacked on our inside right. Skrtel would be the CB facing the play so would dictate positions (no doubt Johnson would be ambling back from the half way line ) and his natural inclination seems to be to drop off meaning that Lovren and Moreno would need to do the same. This seems the polar opposite of how Rodgers ideally wants us to defend.

Mr M makes an excellent point about the common denominator in our communication issues being Skrtel. If the defence doesn't get sorted soon, I'd be tempted to see if playing either Lovren or Sakho at RCB (probably Lovren), partnering the other, helps things. At the very least their style of defending is similar.

[dom9]

MrM.

Defenders were a problem last season so we've bought new defenders.

The new defenders need time to settle in.

Throw a new DM into the mix too.

This is a period of transition for the defensive half of the team.

[marcus50bucks]

Totally agree and it is worrying. I hope that Rodgers can get across to them the idea that we should work as a unit.

I think like you that Lovren would be good at leading the line; the only worry there might be if we were attacked on our inside right. Skrtel would be the CB facing the play so would dictate positions (no doubt Johnson would be ambling back from the half way line ) and his natural inclination seems to be to drop off meaning that Lovren and Moreno would need to do the same. This seems the polar opposite of how Rodgers ideally wants us to defend.

Mr M makes an excellent point about the common denominator in our communication issues being Skrtel. If the defence doesn't get sorted soon, I'd be tempted to see if playing either Lovren or Sakho at RCB (probably Lovren), partnering the other, helps things. At the very least their style of defending is similar.

Fully agree mate

[Charly]

I remember when we bought Henchoz, most of us were left scratching our heads as to why we wanted a defender from a team that got relegated, and how he along with somone from Finland we had never heard of could posskbly sort our leaky defence.

For some reason they clicked into probably the best cetral defending partnership I have ever seen.

I agree understanding and communication is of paramount importance, as is getting the right mix. Not sure if this means they have to work at it, or if they are not compatible as a partnership.

[john316]

Not sure bedding in excuses criminally bad mistakes. Individual errors have plagued us since day 1 under Brenno. Whether it be Agger in that West Brom game, Skrtel in the next one vs Man City all the way up to Lovren/Moreno last night. Brenno is a top, top manager but he either he or the coaching staff just cannot iron out these issues. Critical errors at critical times can't just keep being excused.

Either we're not pressing well enough to limit the opposition or we just can't find defenders who can avoid making critical errors.

[Galb]

It's not just the defence though. You cant look at the back 4 and 5 in isolation because the way the midfield is set up in front of them is important too. If you compare it to Chelsea or City, they have players like Fernando or Matic who are basically an extra line of defence.

Our system leaves it very open because we've a lot of attacking players and Gerrard at the base doesn't really have the legs or the awareness to be a totally effective DM. Look at how Silva lost him for the first goal last night. Obviously Lovren and Moreno were more at fault but it didn't help that he was being dragged forward and backwards towards the ball without getting near it or picking up either Silva or Jovetic. He brings more passing ability obviously but it is a trade-off we're making because we don't have that DM-style player whose main job it is to be destructive rather than creative.

[Lecter]

It's not just the defence though. You cant look at the back 4 and 5 in isolation because the way the midfield is set up in front of them is important too. If you compare it to Chelsea or City, they have players like Fernando or Matic who are basically an extra line of defence.

Our system leaves it very open because we've a lot of attacking players and Gerrard at the base doesn't really have the legs or the awareness to be a totally effective DM. Look at how Silva lost him for the first goal last night. Obviously Lovren and Moreno were more at fault but it didn't help that he was being dragged forward and backwards towards the ball without getting near it or picking up either Silva or Jovetic. He brings more passing ability obviously but it is a trade-off we're making because we don't have that DM-style player whose main job it is to be destructive rather than creative.

The most important thing is to maintain pressure on the ball in all areas, be it just as a general pressing rule or in competing for second balls / knockdowns

I think we have looked somewhat off the pace in this regard in our first two games when comparing it to last season

[G]

Players can certainly be drilled to be more effective

I cant stand the man but look at what Pulis has done at the various sides hes been with, he gets them organised and disciplined in defensive positions

Indeed. It's a good point by Neville too at the end, Demichellis has improved drastically over the last few months as part of their back 4. He was once a figure of much ridicule. I hope to see an improvement by January if we keep a settled back 4 but I don't know if we'll get one.

[baitman]

It really is a difficult situation for us.
So we have Gerrard with obviously defensive weaknesses in front of the back line...

this is half the problem...
stevie drifts in and out of the back line at will and the two CB's never seem to know if they should be leaving it to him, who he is picking up, etc. then stevie steps out 5-10 yards and leaves holes that the other two thought were filled.

as a DM he needs to not overlap so much with the two CB's as its affecting their positioning and their natural game.
gerrard needs to leave it to loveren to boss the back line and gerrard needs to be 10 yards further forward.

[danperkins]

We're better off in players resources terms this season than we have been at any time since the peak of Rafa's curve imo. But we've done a lot of work this summer, necessary however it always was going to take time to bed in especially with the forward line figuring out life post-Suarez. We'll be fine, but that was about the worst fixture possible for us at this point.

Moreno is not the finished article. I said that several times earlier this summer that actually a Bertrand type signing, though with a much lower ceiling, would have been more solid immediately for us. I'm glad that's not what we've done but City were ruthless in how they went at him and I don't think we would have suffered so badly with even a fit Enrique playing.

Lovren and Skrtel; I really rate Lovren, but he didn't have a good game yesterday. I do have to say though, that if every quality player put next to Skrtel has communication issues; Agger, Sakho, Lovren... at what point do we have to look at the common factor? I don't know, I think they'll get better but he does worry me, sorry Dan.

Yeah was a the worst possible fixture at this stage in the season. So much established quality, they are an excellent side.

Can you really say that Lovren,Agger & Sakho are really quality players? On what evidence wold that be ? Nobody gave a **** about Lovren at Lyon & when he signed for Southampton. Sure i said this about Lovren back in May 2013.

Only seen Lovren few times and he's looked quite good. if you believed the rumours he has been linked with most of the big teams for few years now..especially over the last year. Very good on the ball, love to go forward from what i have seen of him and decentish in the air... Very Agger esque IMO.

Be interesting to hear opinion of someone who has seen him play enough times to give good assessment of him.

Nobody batted an eyelid. Even last season when I mentioned him doing well for Southampton nobody cared. Now he signs for LFC and suddenly people waxing lyrical about him and he's only played a few games for us.. one of which he was at fault for 3 goals!

I'd hazard a guess that most people that are bigging him up have seen him live for Southampton one or two times, few games in the World Cup & these few games for LFC. Something like that anyways?

As for Sahko, he hasn't done that much to be considered a quality CB 'yet' & Agger hasn't played consistently well in a long time. Whatever your opinion about Skrtel.. it's not really a true comment to say that that any of Lovren,Sahko & Agger are "quality" CB's. Decent CB's no doubts & Skrtel is decent.. but we don't have any genuine top class, quality CB's.

People keep going on about finding the right pairing between Lovren/Skrtel & Sahko. The fullbacks, Keeper & Gerrard as our DM are big issues IMO. The CB's whomever they will be ....will improve once they get played together on a consistent basis.

Anyways, i'm happy with whom we bought, i would have liked to see an established top RB brought in, but the market is ****ed at the moment. Once Lovren gets an understanding with either Skrtel/Sakho & Moreno hopefully beds in.. things will be better. Gerrard worries me in front of the CB's & RB is also a concern IMO.

[Norbs]

I think we need to accept that this season is going to be transitional. The single priority is to get back in to the CL at the end of the season.

[danperkins]

I'd definitely take 3rd or 4th spot this season.

[kingfunk]

I think we need to accept that this season is going to be transitional. The single priority is to get back in to the CL at the end of the season.

[RichC]

Skrtel is the common factor in the central defensive issues, there is surely an argument to try Lovren and Sakho as a pair.