Liverpool Defence

[danperkins]

How Gerrard can be apportioned blame for defensive errors, I'm not quite sure. It's not as if we're being carved apart through the middle of the pitch. Sure, I think there is room for improvement, but our goals conceded column is not because we're fielding Gerrard.

Because his defensive positioning is all over the place, he leaves so many gaps & pockets of space in front of the back line that it really doesn't do our already shaky defence any favours. Southampton especially Ward Prowse & City have both exploited that space. There are so many LFC & non LFC supporters saying the very same mate, it's not just me that has voiced this concern.

When he plays in that position the work load of Henderson & Allen to cover around Stevie doubles IMO. Which means neither player can get forward to help the midfield as much as we would like. In saying that Gerrard did start the season slow last year & pushed on, IMO though that protection for the back 4 is lacking.

[danperkins]

I don't think we need one of those type players. I like our style of play. Yes Gerrard misses the odd runner yet you could bring in a Makelele type who offers **** all else to the team and they could still not track a runner and you concede. What we have is a relatively new defence and in front of that we are choosing to play a ball playing deep creative player in Gerrard. It worked pretty well from January onwards so I see no reason in giving up on it so early. Gerrard is the first name on the team sheet and its not changing anytime soon. Ideally what we could do with is a Veira or Keane type, someone that not only mops up at the back but offers plenty going forwards. There aren't many in world football these days.

Ah no doubts we'll improve defensively & the communication between the two CBs', CB's and full backs & CB's & Stevie will get better. Gerrard had slow start last year too in that position.

A Makelele type player offers less pressure on the back line & goal keeper... and surely the chance of less goals conceded. Mascherano was a beast for us in the midfield, his passing has improved no end since playing for Barca. Someone like Alex Song in front of the back 4 would be a fantastic addition, good positioning, engine & technique. Song got 13 assists for Arsenal the season he left for Barca, surprised me that stat although was playing more box to box. Just unfortunate for him that like so many others he made the wrong move to Barca which has really stagnated his career.

Stevie's production & set piece delivery last season was amazing, he has vital experience & quality but IMO needs a real defensive partner beside him to relieve the pressure.

[Muddled]

Because his defensive positioning is all over the place, he leaves so many gaps & pockets of space in front of the back line that it really doesn't do our already shaky defence any favours. Southampton especially Ward Prowse & City have both exploited that space. There are so many LFC & non LFC supporters saying the very same mate, it's not just me that has voiced this concern.

When he plays in that position the work load of Henderson & Allen to cover around Stevie doubles IMO. Which means neither player can get forward to help the midfield as much as we would like. In saying that Gerrard did start the season slow last year & pushed on, IMO though that protection for the back 4 is lacking.

I think our defensive frailties are down to our tactics as a team rather than Gerrard's positioning. The only time Gerrard struggles is when he is isolated during a counter-attack or when directly pressed in possession. The opposition are exploiting the space behind our full-backs and we have a defensive line that are in two minds to retreat or step up. Until we get a fully functioning back four, we could have Mascherano, Makelele and Gerrard playing and we would still be exposed.

Saying all that, we are going to concede goals during Rodgers' tenure. Rodgers is wanting Gerrard to be our springboard for attack, our go through guy to get us moving forward quickly. Gerrard's primary purpose is not to assist our defence, but to be our catalyst for attack - it's the Rodgers way.

[BobTheCharmer]

Saying all that, we are going to concede goals during Rodgers' tenure. Rodgers is wanting Gerrard to be our springboard for attack, our go through guy to get us moving forward quickly. Gerrard's primary purpose is not to assist our defence, but to be our catalyst for attack - it's the Rodgers way.

Well said. We should enjoy it.

[CAD]

How Gerrard can be apportioned blame for defensive errors, I'm not quite sure. It's not as if we're being carved apart through the middle of the pitch. Sure, I think there is room for improvement, but our goals conceded column is not because we're fielding Gerrard.

As long as I remember - since I joined Koptalk in 2003 and afterwards when we jumped over here because the fat ******* thought he was Stalin there has NEVER been a single poster who applauded Gerrard for his defensive abilities. Eu contraire! This goes for all the positions he has covered in his wonderful carreer for us. Being at left center for Rafa or whatever else. We have ALL agreed that his tracking and general defensive abilities was woeful but it was never an issue because he added SO MUCH forward - and he did.

About 2011 this started to change. He got older and had less impact on the final 1/3. Fair enough - obviously.

Now he is being moved back to a position he has never played where he is suppose to cover all this things mentioned in the above and I think that it is MORE than a fair question if he is capable of doing this.

Now, in my mind, the answer is a resounding NO. Of course he cant. He couldn't last season either but the 101 goals going forward made it a non issue. The goal machine that was Suarez covered over the cracks. This will not happen this year. We have to get it fixed. Simple as.

It is not, and was never, about Gerrard bashing. He is a fantastic player and a legend, but what he is being asked to do and learn at 33/34 is next to impossible. He just doesnt have the tools. Taking into consideration that he is playing at a vital position that connects all the dots across the field we are looking at a disaster waiting to happen. We can keep going with the back 4 bashing but its nonsensical if you don't look at the issue as a unit. The HM is the glue that binds everything together. If you have to worry about tracking and closing gaps that wouldn't normally exist at this level you well never stop the bleeding. To ignore these facts and continue with a 34 old legend in the most vital position of the team would be a mistake. Yes, I keep going on about this issue because nothing else needs solving more IMO.

He is impossible to drop. Bobthefarmer is right about that. So what is the best solution? Song seems like a damn fine option if you ask me.

[danperkins]

I think our defensive frailties are down to our tactics as a team rather than Gerrard's positioning. The only time Gerrard struggles is when he is isolated during a counter-attack or when directly pressed in possession. The opposition are exploiting the space behind our full-backs and we have a defensive line that are in two minds to retreat or step up. Until we get a fully functioning back four, we could have Mascherano, Makelele and Gerrard playing and we would still be exposed.

Saying all that, we are going to concede goals during Rodgers' tenure. Rodgers is wanting Gerrard to be our springboard for attack, our go through guy to get us moving forward quickly. Gerrard's primary purpose is not to assist our defence, but to be our catalyst for attack - it's the Rodgers way.

I don't disagree with any of that mate.. continuity & communication will improve with consistent pairings. In saying that.. Gerrard defensive qualities only get you so far in the position he is occupying IMO. Just leaves way to many gaps & space for attacking opposition to expolit.

I just feel a real defensive support for Stevie would benefit us during the course of the season. Surely Alex Song for the apparent 8 million has to be considered a cracking deal? A definite upgrade on Lucas anyways. And seemingly that's what our transfer strategy has been all about... can't replace Suarez directly so improve & expand on all the other positions around to make the whole team & squad stronger.

[Chris]

So what is the best solution? Song seems like a damn fine option if you ask me.

The player Arsenal fans hammered for not being able to defend and begged for signings like M'Vila, De Jong etc. That'll work out well!

Is it just anyone but Gerrard?

[CAD]

The player Arsenal fans hammered for not being able to defend and begged for signings like M'Vila, De Jong etc. That'll work out well!

Is it just anyone but Gerrard?

I don't know, mate. Maybe he isn't the right choice... All I know is that we need something in the center and Song, in my mind, could be good value. Maybe Joe Allen could be great given the chance? We need someone in the center who is at the front-line and in charge. A captain, not a passenger. I'm just not sure that Allen has the tools to be a leader. He seems a bit timid to me...We need a Roy Keane type. I agree that Song isn't that player. So Song isn't the final solution but what else is out there right now?

Could Allen/Can ro Allen/Hendersen be the right combo?

And yes, Gerrard is a luxury we can't afford imo in that position. If we want to get a defense that works he must move further up pitch. He would do more good there IMO all things considered. Trouble is that we have really great players for those positions, dont we?

[baitman]

if song or a.n.other comes in as the new dm, do we revert to a pair of dm's to further accommodate gerrard. or does this mean gerrard forfeits his role in the dm position. does he get included elsewhere...

if so, it must surely stifle our attacking flair.

surely we need lallana, sturridge, sterling, bibotelli, markovic, etc involved as much as possible.

with a gk, back four and two dm's, it only leaves three attacking midfielders and one striker.

[CAD]

if song or a.n.other comes in as the new dm, do we revert to a pair of dm's to further accommodate gerrard. or does this mean gerrard forfeits his role in the dm position. does he get included elsewhere...

if so, it must surely stifle our attacking flair.

surely we need lallana, sturridge, sterling, bibotelli, markovic, etc involved as much as possible.

with a gk, back four and two dm's, it only leaves three attacking midfielders and one striker.

I would prefer one HM but as it is now we would most like stay with two DM's or suffer the consequence. One thing that we all agree on (for various reasons) is that Gerrard is going nowhere. He can't be dropped.

So how to solve this kanandrum?

I think we have to accept that this is a transition season with Gerrard as the defensive player and all the things that comes with it. Maybe we will have enough power to get away with it.

Watching the Saints and the City match I can only say that I doubt it. Coutinho needs to buckle the **** up to start with - that's for sure.

[Chazza]

It's still a mess and shows no sign of getting better.

Any high ball into the box looks like a goal being conceded at the moment.

[cream]

I want to see Toure back.

[The Erectile Banana]

If anything our defence is worse than last season. Lovern looks like a complete waste of money so far.

[Chris]

Enrique took ****ness to new levels today! Skrtel nearly had 2 assists for QPR in the first half alone, Lovren wasnt much better and Glen was **** too but at least helped going forward.

Part is of course the way we play but we also seem to have gotten some of the dumbest individuals in the league together at one time, it's quite annoying.

Glen, Skrtel and Enrique are all known for switching off yet there the 3 of them are starting together. And Lovren isnt much better in that department on the early evidence but he looked decent with Sakho and Manquillo/Moreno.

[Buzzo]

Lovren does look totally inept but it's an issue that goes beyond who is playing at the back.