Liverpool vs Hull City post match thread

[danperkins]

Try Stevie G as a ball playing centre back how much worse than Skrtel or Lovren can he be(

Probably not much worse

[Fernandinho]

Not many people have mentioned it, but I thought lambert was excellent when he came on the pitch. Getting the ball and dropping it to midfielders rather than slowing the play like Balotelli does by trying to turn. He also played some neat balls in behind and laid up the chance for gerrard. I feel as though the performance from him yesterday is what I expected we would get when he arrived.

He could well start next week in my point of view. He does the basics right and keeps the ball moving so we maintain that momentum in our play we have struggled with. Especially because Balotelli is always looking for that killer pass/goal scoring chance before opting out and killing the momentum, or turning over possession with a shot/ low percentage pass.

Whoever of the two learns to play far more simple and with pace will take the position till sturridge returns and maybe even after in my point of view.

[RedRum]

Not many people have mentioned it, but I thought lambert was excellent when he came on the pitch. Getting the ball and dropping it to midfielders rather than slowing the play like Balotelli does by trying to turn. He also played some neat balls in behind and laid up the chance for gerrard. I feel as though the performance from him yesterday is what I expected we would get when he arrived.

He could well start next week in my point of view. He does the basics right and keeps the ball moving so we maintain that momentum in our play we have struggled with. Especially because Balotelli is always looking for that killer pass/goal scoring chance before opting out and killing the momentum, or turning over possession with a shot/ low percentage pass.

Whoever of the two learns to play far more simple and with pace will take the position till sturridge returns and maybe even after in my point of view.

Agree 100%

[Daniel 7]

Something else that people aren't mentioning is the fact that Steve Bruce has a really decent record against Liverpool. Hull are no mugs, they have a decent squad and could bring on players like Gaston Ramirez, who we were linked with ourselves with Kenny.

That last 20 minutes or so after Coutinho came on were good, they looked a different proposition when we didn't have to rely on non existent intelligent movement from the centre forward, and we had someone who could carry the ball forward at pace with the ability to beat players. He played the part of the impact substitution that Brendan was after last season - why we had to wait so long to see it was another issue altogether.

Thought Lambert, for all he lacks as an answer to the striking problem, added a lot when he came on. He held up well, brought other players into the game and looked like he really wanted to win.

Mario can **** off though.

Also, Steve Bruce got a lol when he covered his head up under his jacket when the "Steve Bruce has a big fat head" chant rang out.

And Anfield was no more quiet than it has been in equivalent games over the last few years.

[DannyMan2006]

Something else that people aren't mentioning is the fact that Steve Bruce has a really decent record against Liverpool. Hull are no mugs, they have a decent squad and could bring on players like Gaston Ramirez, who we were linked with ourselves with Kenny.

That last 20 minutes or so after Coutinho came on were good, they looked a different proposition when we didn't have to rely on non existent intelligent movement from the centre forward, and we had someone who could carry the ball forward at pace with the ability to beat players. He played the part of the impact substitution that Brendan was after last season - why we had to wait so long to see it was another issue altogether.

Thought Lambert, for all he lacks as an answer to the striking problem, added a lot when he came on. He held up well, brought other players into the game and looked like he really wanted to win.

Mario can **** off though.

Also, Steve Bruce got a lol when he covered his head up under his jacket when the "Steve Bruce has a big fat head" chant rang out.

And Anfield was no more quiet than it has been in equivalent games over the last few years.

Every team in the league has some quality players, who on their day, can open up a team and win the game. This is what the Prems all about and why people frequently call it the toughest in the world. That quality, allied with high intensity makes it difficult for a top side if they are not at their fluent best or boasting a fully fit squad.

People laughed at the Rodgers post game interview, but the reason he was so pleased was because the team showed some real grit and determination. Going into the final half hour we were the better side who looked the most hungry and the most focused and fit. In reality many of those players would have been very tired in comparison to Hulls players, but they kept working hard. The same against QPR too, the players just kept working right up to the death.

Now everyone knows the quality isn't there at present, and we all have our own ideas. But what can't be denied is that the team is working ridiculously hard in what will be very demanding circumstances. We're not getting any easy rides and we're having to work right up until the last seconds in every game I can think of.

Midweek we were chasing shadows across the Anfield turf and that would have taken twice the amount of energy in comparison to say Chelsea who coasted to a 6-0 win, who then get the extra days rest. The sooner we click, the sooner we start burying teams and being able to take the foot off the gas and conserve some energy.

It's easy to have a go at players, but the effort is there and whilst that's the minimum, it's not always there in teams. But that effort shows to me that when things turn for the better, we'll be right up there once again.

[frank the tank]

maybe i'm being a bit harsh on Allen as he isn't fully match fit, IMO i just really thought it was the perfect game for Coutinho was bit miffed when he didn't start & more so when i seen how effective he was when he came on.

The Gerrard situation is so tricky. Rodgers wants him deep to get the ball off the CB's and dictate possession up the field. Gerrard is a quality long range passer but his short passing IMO is just too slow... he was never the tika taka type of player. When Lucas was on form the other season or especially when we had Alonso... the passing was so sharp. For me we are so slow to release the ball that any team that presses high against us or works hard in midfield, dominate us.

IMO Gerrard's best attributes are his striking of a ball & his set pieces (Although his corners can be so frustrating). If we are going to play Stevie for me it makes sense to play him closer to goal to get the best of him, lessen his work load & play to his strengths. He has lost his pace & never had good defensive positional sense. Rodgers seems to have created this role for Stevie just to accommodate him. And IMO not only does it go against his natural game... at 34 he's having to work harder than he's ever had & in a position that he seems to struggle when we're on the back foot. We are having to choose certain players because of Gerrard's defensive frailties.

For me, the current Gerrard role only works if we have a team that can dominate possession and dictate games in the midfield.. and we don't. We look uncomfortable and clumsy in possession if there is any sort of sustained pressing from the opposition. More often than not we give it away and are straight on the defensive. A DM surely is a must?

I don't think we really know what way to play at the moment. It's most unbalanced i've seen a LFC in a long time.

the balance of the team is the key - or actually, the lack of balance. For me Brendan has a few issues.

I understand what you are saying about Brendan wanting Gerrard to drop deep to get the ball off the defenders and start long ball counter attacks - but i really feel that is only going to work if he has a defensive midfielder sat next to him to break up the opposition play. Gerrard is effective where he is on the pitch from an attacking perspective, but very ineffective from a defensive point of view - which is a big problem when you are a defensive midfielder. I think the media love-in of Gerrard has not highlighted this enough but for me, i would compare Stevie to the two players that have done his role effectively for rivals of ours - Scholes and Lampard. Both of these players remained very effective, playing at the highest level, into their late 30s. Both of these players slowed down in their latter years. And both of these players dropped deeper in position on the field - more so with the case of Scholes. However, neither of these was transformed into a defensive midfielder just to fit them into the team. They always played next to a defensive specialist. If you look at this argument though, then you would say that play Gerrard next to a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 formation might be the answer - but then that would bring up the problem of what to do with Jordan Henderson.

Rodgers has to find a solution to fit gerrard into the team. I love Gerrard as a player - and i am not saying we should bomb him out - i think he still brings amazing effectiveness to the team from an offensive viewpoint.

I don't think it will happen, but i would like us to stick with the diamond formation for a prolonged period with a specialist defensive midfielder, 2 of Henderson, Gerrard, Allen in the middle - with Coutinho behind Sterling and Balotelli. When Sturridge is fit, then put Sterling back at the tip of the diamond and maybe even put Coutinho back into the middle 3.......as i said though, i only think this will happen if something like an injury to Gerrard forces Brendan to do this. (he won't want to piss off his new landlord either )

Looking at all of these points though, it also asks the question of where does Lallana fit in. As a squad player for when Sterling and/or Coutinho needs to be rested? Expensive squad player if so.

Look at every successful team in the last 20 or 30 years - i'm thinking Milan in the early 90s, Man United had a few teams, Arsenal as well...... Chelsea for shorter periods and of course Guardiola's Barcelona. All of these teams had identity. They had a way to play. They had a formation and mainly stuck to that (with the exception of in-game tactical changes). When Rafa was our manager, apparently before we signed a new player, Benitez would talk to them about football...different tactics and such. I would like Brendan to forget about the players that he has at his disposal - and just pick a formation and how he wants his team to play. And stick with that formation for the rest of the season. And play the best players for that position in their right positions. If he honestly did that, then i don't think he would be playing Gerrard as the midfield anchor.

[DannyMan2006]

the balance of the team is the key - or actually, the lack of balance. For me Brendan has a few issues.

I understand what you are saying about Brendan wanting Gerrard to drop deep to get the ball off the defenders and start long ball counter attacks - but i really feel that is only going to work if he has a defensive midfielder sat next to him to break up the opposition play. Gerrard is effective where he is on the pitch from an attacking perspective, but very ineffective from a defensive point of view - which is a big problem when you are a defensive midfielder. I think the media love-in of Gerrard has not highlighted this enough but for me, i would compare Stevie to the two players that have done his role effectively for rivals of ours - Scholes and Lampard. Both of these players remained very effective, playing at the highest level, into their late 30s. Both of these players slowed down in their latter years. And both of these players dropped deeper in position on the field - more so with the case of Scholes. However, neither of these was transformed into a defensive midfielder just to fit them into the team. They always played next to a defensive specialist. If you look at this argument though, then you would say that play Gerrard next to a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 formation might be the answer - but then that would bring up the problem of what to do with Jordan Henderson.

Rodgers has to find a solution to fit gerrard into the team. I love Gerrard as a player - and i am not saying we should bomb him out - i think he still brings amazing effectiveness to the team from an offensive viewpoint.

I don't think it will happen, but i would like us to stick with the diamond formation for a prolonged period with a specialist defensive midfielder, 2 of Henderson, Gerrard, Allen in the middle - with Coutinho behind Sterling and Balotelli. When Sturridge is fit, then put Sterling back at the tip of the diamond and maybe even put Coutinho back into the middle 3.......as i said though, i only think this will happen if something like an injury to Gerrard forces Brendan to do this. (he won't want to piss off his new landlord either )

Looking at all of these points though, it also asks the question of where does Lallana fit in. As a squad player for when Sterling and/or Coutinho needs to be rested? Expensive squad player if so.

Look at every successful team in the last 20 or 30 years - i'm thinking Milan in the early 90s, Man United had a few teams, Arsenal as well...... Chelsea for shorter periods and of course Guardiola's Barcelona. All of these teams had identity. They had a way to play. They had a formation and mainly stuck to that (with the exception of in-game tactical changes). When Rafa was our manager, apparently before we signed a new player, Benitez would talk to them about football...different tactics and such. I would like Brendan to forget about the players that he has at his disposal - and just pick a formation and how he wants his team to play. And stick with that formation for the rest of the season. And play the best players for that position in their right positions. If he honestly did that, then i don't think he would be playing Gerrard as the midfield anchor.

Scholes played next to Carrick, hardly a defensive specialist.

And I know exactly how Rodgers wants to play. But if players struggle for form you're caught between a rock and a hard place. I think the we have Balo & Danny fit he'd be happy to play the diamond. And for me, that would work, as evidenced against Spurs.

I think aside from that his main thinking was to go with a 433. He has a number of players that fit this system. Gerrard/Can/Allen/Hendo can play the middle three, in more offensive games we can also slip in Couts or possibly Lallana. Lallana and Couts could also obviously play further up in the front three, along with Markovic and Sterling. Markovic also played in a middle three for Benfica, so in time he could go there. Raheem has also on the odd occasion played there for us. Options. We also have Suso, a further option.

Sturridge and Remy were supposed to be the main man in the middle, with the added bonus that both are able to do a job on the wing, All be it in more offensive displays. Lambert was the man who we could turn to as a last ditch plan B, coming off the bench to add some muscle in tight games. If you look at all that, it makes sense.

Then the massive error occurs. Remy fails a medical. What now? Panic stations. We can't start a season with Studge & Lambo as are main strikers, whilst Rodgers has already decided that Fabio isn't good enough and £14m is too good to turn down. So what do we do. I can imagine we ask around and the best option we thought available was Mario.

And let's be honest, most of us thought that at £16m he's a bargain. But then, none of us I guess have ever really watched him play the system we wanted him for. Because he seems incapable of doing the job as a lone front man.

Now it's down to Rodgers to find a way of making him fit into that role. I've seen signs of it, but he still looks much better with a partner. The problem is that at the moment none of the strikers we have fit are actually good enough to start with Balo. Which is a shame.

[danperkins]

the balance of the team is the key - or actually, the lack of balance. For me Brendan has a few issues.

I understand what you are saying about Brendan wanting Gerrard to drop deep to get the ball off the defenders and start long ball counter attacks - but i really feel that is only going to work if he has a defensive midfielder sat next to him to break up the opposition play. Gerrard is effective where he is on the pitch from an attacking perspective, but very ineffective from a defensive point of view - which is a big problem when you are a defensive midfielder. I think the media love-in of Gerrard has not highlighted this enough but for me, i would compare Stevie to the two players that have done his role effectively for rivals of ours - Scholes and Lampard. Both of these players remained very effective, playing at the highest level, into their late 30s. Both of these players slowed down in their latter years. And both of these players dropped deeper in position on the field - more so with the case of Scholes. However, neither of these was transformed into a defensive midfielder just to fit them into the team. They always played next to a defensive specialist. If you look at this argument though, then you would say that play Gerrard next to a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 formation might be the answer - but then that would bring up the problem of what to do with Jordan Henderson.

Rodgers has to find a solution to fit gerrard into the team. I love Gerrard as a player - and i am not saying we should bomb him out - i think he still brings amazing effectiveness to the team from an offensive viewpoint.

I don't think it will happen, but i would like us to stick with the diamond formation for a prolonged period with a specialist defensive midfielder, 2 of Henderson, Gerrard, Allen in the middle - with Coutinho behind Sterling and Balotelli. When Sturridge is fit, then put Sterling back at the tip of the diamond and maybe even put Coutinho back into the middle 3.......as i said though, i only think this will happen if something like an injury to Gerrard forces Brendan to do this. (he won't want to piss off his new landlord either )

Looking at all of these points though, it also asks the question of where does Lallana fit in. As a squad player for when Sterling and/or Coutinho needs to be rested? Expensive squad player if so.

Look at every successful team in the last 20 or 30 years - i'm thinking Milan in the early 90s, Man United had a few teams, Arsenal as well...... Chelsea for shorter periods and of course Guardiola's Barcelona. All of these teams had identity. They had a way to play. They had a formation and mainly stuck to that (with the exception of in-game tactical changes). When Rafa was our manager, apparently before we signed a new player, Benitez would talk to them about football...different tactics and such. I would like Brendan to forget about the players that he has at his disposal - and just pick a formation and how he wants his team to play. And stick with that formation for the rest of the season. And play the best players for that position in their right positions. If he honestly did that, then i don't think he would be playing Gerrard as the midfield anchor.

Completely agree about having an out an out DM beside Gerrard if Rodgers is going to persist with it. Talking about Alex Song in another thread... was a no brainer signing on loan. Transforming West Hams's midfield this season.

I think Rodgers is struggling to find what formation is best with the personnel he has. We are so unbalanced at the moment that it's really hard to know what is our best side & in what formation. With this unbalance seems to have bred a confidence issue. The lack of pressing is so evident this season & was the corner stone of our play last season. Even with Suarez gone the other have just stopped doing this. Seems a genuine lack of enthusiasm, fight and desire to win.

We are all banking on Balotelli hitting it off with Sturridge when he is back & i do think 2 up top is the way to go whenever Balotelli & Lambert are playing.. but their still is the DM issue & although we got a clean sheet vs Hull.. our defensive problems are far from over.

[BigChief]

Every team in the league has some quality players, who on their day, can open up a team and win the game. This is what the Prems all about and why people frequently call it the toughest in the world. That quality, allied with high intensity makes it difficult for a top side if they are not at their fluent best or boasting a fully fit squad.

People laughed at the Rodgers post game interview, but the reason he was so pleased was because the team showed some real grit and determination. Going into the final half hour we were the better side who looked the most hungry and the most focused and fit. In reality many of those players would have been very tired in comparison to Hulls players, but they kept working hard. The same against QPR too, the players just kept working right up to the death.

Now everyone knows the quality isn't there at present, and we all have our own ideas. But what can't be denied is that the team is working ridiculously hard in what will be very demanding circumstances. We're not getting any easy rides and we're having to work right up until the last seconds in every game I can think of.

Midweek we were chasing shadows across the Anfield turf and that would have taken twice the amount of energy in comparison to say Chelsea who coasted to a 6-0 win, who then get the extra days rest. The sooner we click, the sooner we start burying teams and being able to take the foot off the gas and conserve some energy.

It's easy to have a go at players, but the effort is there and whilst that's the minimum, it's not always there in teams. But that effort shows to me that when things turn for the better, we'll be right up there once again.

This is a very good post. I love the attention to detail. As much of a brain fart it was to leave Coutinho so late yesterday was actually one of our best games for nil result. And Can / Allen are one game fitter.

Even ****house Balotelli got into two clear cut goal scoring positions. Surprised me no end.

[DannyMan2006]

Completely agree about having an out an out DM beside Gerrard if Rodgers is going to persist with it. Talking about Alex Song in another thread... was a no brainer signing on loan. Transforming West Hams's midfield this season.

I think Rodgers is struggling to find what formation is best with the personnel he has. We are so unbalanced at the moment that it's really hard to know what is our best side & in what formation. With this unbalance seems to have bred a confidence issue. The lack of pressing is so evident this season & was the corner stone of our play last season. Even with Suarez gone the other have just stopped doing this. Seems a genuine lack of fight and desire to win.

We are all banking on Balotelli hitting it off with Sturridge when he is back but their still is the DM issue & although we got a clean sheet vs Hull.. our defensive problems are far from over.

Pressing could be a fitness issue. Easier to press when you have one game a week. We just need to pick the right moments to press and drop. IMO you have to treat the start of every game like a Merseyside derby. Get on top of them and win the early battles. Then control the play. Pass it about, slow the game. Eliminate the danger, then look to build and show your quality. Do the same at the start of the second and again every time a goal is scored.

Other than, it's about in game management. Players like Gerrard should know when we are on top and when we can press our foot on the accelerator. He should also know when we're under the cosh a bit and we need to roll the sleeves up and press the opposition. Get the ball back and keep hold of it for a bit. We are invariably the better team in games and we need to control them and show this. Against better sides you're at their mercy, but coming up against teams like West Ham and QPR, we should be dictating those games.

I have to say, I think we did everything right against Hull other than score. We controlled the game, we looked solid and we showed a threat. We made the subs at the right time and we were able to go for the jugular without sticking our necks out and risking a counter. We'll create far less and win game this season.

IMO, that wasn't a poor performance all round, just a poor result. I'd go as far as saying in that other than Spurs, that was our most controlled display yet. I accept that's a damning indictment of how poor we've been, but things look to be turning. Everton was also a good performance, but I expect desire in a derby. It's not always expected sadly against the lesser sides.

[DannyMan2006]

This is a very good post. I love the attention to detail. As much of a brain fart it was to leave Coutinho so late yesterday was actually one of our best games for nil result. And Can / Allen are one game fitter.

Even ****house Balotelli got into two clear cut goal scoring positions. Surprised me no end.

I said in my last post we made the subs at the right time, but yes we could have brought on Couts earlier. But I did hear before the game that him and Hendo werecarrying slight knocks, hence their withdrawal v Real and them not starting the following game.

[danperkins]

Pressing could be a fitness issue. Easier to press when you have one game a week. We just need to pick the right moments to press and drop. IMO you have to treat the start of every game like a Merseyside derby. Get on top of them and win the early battles. Then control the play. Pass it about, slow the game. Eliminate the danger, then look to build and show your quality. Do the same at the start of the second and again every time a goal is scored.

Other than, it's about in game management. Players like Gerrard should know when we are on top and when we can press our foot on the accelerator. He should also know when we're under the cosh a bit and we need to roll the sleeves up and press the opposition. Get the ball back and keep hold of it for a bit. We are invariably the better team in games and we need to control them and show this. Against better sides you're at their mercy, but coming up against teams like West Ham and QPR, we should be dictating those games.

I have to say, I think we did everything right against Hull other than score. We controlled the game, we looked solid and we showed a threat. We made the subs at the right time and we were able to go for the jugular without sticking our necks out and risking a counter. We'll create far less and win game this season.

IMO, that wasn't a poor performance all round, just a poor result. I'd go as far as saying in that other than Spurs, that was our most controlled display yet. I accept that's a damning indictment of how poor we've been, but things look to be turning. Everton was also a good performance, but I expect desire in a derby. It's not always expected sadly against the lesser sides.

I fully expected us to beat Hull to be honest, especially with how depleted they were. A clean sheet is scant conciliation IMO. We did control the game & look much the better side in the last 20 mins with Coutinho on & playing with two up top. Finishing is an issue alright, i think we had 16 or 17 shots on goal but only 4 on target, Hull had 3 on target. Whether that's confidence,pressure or just talent i'm not sure.

I would agree that having the champs league and the internationals has definitely taken its toll but to be fair we started off the season exactly like this. Spurs was the only real game you would say where were excellent in. We bought all these players in for exactly this reason but it remains to be seen whether they are the right players. As i said previous, maybe it was the wrong season to buy potential talent when after Suarez leaving we really needed players to hit the ground running. Better chance of that happening when you buy established quality.

We have been unlucky with injuries but to be fair so has most other teams. We have harped on so much, myself included about Sturridge's absence and the hole it has left, what does that say about the strikers we have brought to LFC in the summer? We are hoping Sturridge is the missing link and with his return we'll look more balanced..and we should to a point. We're looking for Sturridge to defend from the front & start a chain reaction where others do the same like last season, to provide more movement up top and down the channels so Coutinho & Gerrard have options and targets & for Sturridge to be perfect foil for Balotelli & in a two up top ... that we'll see the best out of Mario.

It's a lot to ask & an awful lot to hope for. Lot of pressure, expectation & work rate to put on a guy that has been injured 13 times in 2 seasons.

[captainfog]

Something else that people aren't mentioning is the fact that Steve Bruce has a really decent record against Liverpool. Hull are no mugs, they have a decent squad and could bring on players like Gaston Ramirez, who we were linked with ourselves with Kenny.

That last 20 minutes or so after Coutinho came on were good, they looked a different proposition when we didn't have to rely on non existent intelligent movement from the centre forward, and we had someone who could carry the ball forward at pace with the ability to beat players. He played the part of the impact substitution that Brendan was after last season - why we had to wait so long to see it was another issue altogether.

Thought Lambert, for all he lacks as an answer to the striking problem, added a lot when he came on. He held up well, brought other players into the game and looked like he really wanted to win.

Mario can **** off though.

Also, Steve Bruce got a lol when he covered his head up under his jacket when the "Steve Bruce has a big fat head" chant rang out.

And Anfield was no more quiet than it has been in equivalent games over the last few years.

I think Steve Bruce has only won at anfield once. Statos might want to check that. Gaston Ramirez is pretty ordinary and being highly regarded by Kenny isn't necessarily something to shout about when you consider Adam, downing and Carroll.

I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post though.

[Daniel 7]

Yeah, but he's been to Anfield with lesser teams is what I mean, unfancied sides that we would expect to beat - he always seems to create tight, low scoring games (other than when we put 7 past his Birmingham team!)

My point about Gaston was that he was good enough to be linked to us once upon a time, and now Hull have him as a squad option. They've recruited well for a side that was managed by Phil Brown a few years back! I agree he wouldn't have been good enough for Liverpool though.

[BigChief]

I said in my last post we made the subs at the right time, but yes we could have brought on Couts earlier. But I did hear before the game that him and Hendo werecarrying slight knocks, hence their withdrawal v Real and them not starting the following game.

Ahhhh, that makes sense then. I thought Brendan was losing his marbles but if Couts was carrying a knock then things make more sense now.

Hope that is the real reason and I can stop feeling like **** now. Beginning to look forward to the Swansea game. Come on you Redmen.