v Chelsea (A): Post Match Thread

[DannyMan2006]

I thought we did pretty well today after the first 20 mins or so. Decent game once it got a bit less dirty, we gave it a good go in the second half. Not a huge amount to complain about for me.



Its all well and good saying that Leyton, however you aren't explaining actually how we do so. We have the 5th highest revenue in the league and pay the 5th highest wages. They've been pretty successful so far in increasing our turnover and shown they are prepared to spend what we generate. How, in simple business terms, particularly with the limitations of FPP that do regulate spending on wages relative to turnover (and which we just only scraped through already), are we supposed to do more than that?

Everyone knows we can't do that.

They're not magicians and nor will they ever be. What they do have is a business plan for the club to move forwards, but its never worked in this league and it never will.

Replacing experienced players with young talents all the time may work on a computer game but it doesn't work in real life. The players cost more at 25+ because they're ready to play and compete. Sometimes they don't settle and don't work, but with young lads, even if they settle straight away they are still not the finished article and are still not good enough.

Tbh, it is not all about the age of a player. It is about having a top player who will make a difference in a game on a regular basis, and having characters who turn up when the going gets tough. We don't have that Steve Gerrard under Houllier & Benitez who used to drag us out the fire in a desperate situation.

Nor do i see us signing any players like that in a hurry. I will tell you what we will get next season. Another season where we will have ups and downs and times where we will look like we are back on track. Then as soon as a couple lose form, the team starts struggling and we have no one to force the game to bend to their will and drag out a win.

I just don't see any player in our squad who plays to a high level when all others around are out of form. And thats the key to competing at the highest levels. Look at Leicester, bit of confidence and form and everyone is flying. Teams can do that. Our team does that.

But when a bit of form is lost we generally just lose the game instead of grinding out a win. And its not all about Rodgers. He just doesn't have a player who can stand up and dig in.

Even our best players, its all a case of, oohh if he does this or adds that, he will be world class. Well bad news, as soon as someone does that, they'll be off to compete at the top level. We are Arsenal from past years but sadly for us there is now some big players in town, whilst when Arsenal were at the stage we are at, it was easier to finish higher.

More recently, we are a Spurs under Redknapp. Fantastic to watch but cave in under pressure. May get a player who stands up who nearly takes us close, but then that player is sold and the spark is gone.

I could go on & on. But this year we needed 4th. Badly. We could have broke the mould, instead we are another flash in the pan.

[MrMichael]

TBH I'm looking forward to seeing some big earners leave the club in the summer which will no doubt free up the wage bill. Wanting us to pay bigger wages at this moment in time is more hope than expectation as i serious believe we will not be doing this until the main stand is complete.

The fact that we are still one of the richest clubs in the world despite not bein the the CL for a good few years must be credited to FSG. If you look at the Forbes rich list of clubs we are the only one in the top 10 that hasn't been in the CL on a regular basis which in itself is very impressive.

One top striker this season or even Remy and we would have been sitting in the top four comfortably now. On the whole we are where we should be in terms of revenue, wages ext but better footballing decisions last summer and we could have been further along which is the most frustrating aspect of the whole thing.

Oh absolutely; Gerrard, Johnson etc leaving will undoubtedly free up some room. I have no reason to believe FSG won't spend that, but we will have to keep within our overall structure. Hopefully as the club continues to improve its operations, expands Anfield etc, more will become available and we will be able to compete more, but in the meantime I don't see that we have a choice to just pay more.

What we do have though is a choice where to prioritise spending both on transfers and on wages, in that respect I do agree with you about "footballing decisions" last summer and do think there is a very strong argument for tweaking the model there.

[MrMichael]

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I could go on & on. But this year we needed 4th. Badly. We could have broke the mould, instead we are another flash in the pan.

I don't disagree with much of that Danny, however I would say that we didn't entirely spend all our money on youngsters last summer, perhaps the biggest problem we have had is that the "ready now" players we bought, Balotelli, Lovren, Lallana and Lambert, have contributed so very very little. If those had worked out differently... well, it is mostly irrelevant now.

We do lack players who will stand up, but I don't think it is unreasonable to hope some of the likes of Can, Coutinho and Henderson become players like that soon, or to think we may be able to bring in others with that sort of mentality who aren't just players with promise.

As for virtually abandoning next season before this one even finishes, that is a bit too defeatist for me. And the 4th thing, are we seriously going to say that once back in it we expected to be able to stay in it every season? ManU spent nearly £200m net over the last 12 months on a side that were champions 2 years ago. There was always going to be a chance of us slipping back, yes we should have done so much better and really have had a disappointing season but we broke that mould in '13-'14, it can be done again.

[SB]

Pleased to walk away with a point as I expected the worst.

[Daniel 7]

A point was pointless really.

[danperkins]

Yup we needed a win. Decent performance but not good enough to take the 3 points. I didn't expect us to win so a point usually there is a good day....just not today.

[Fosterbloke]

Or we could have gone for it, lost the match and been on a downer.

At least we can point to ways to contain a league winning side and then build on them next season.

I'm happy with a point. It's like getting an equalizer just before half time, it will gives the team the impetus to push on in the second half (or next season in this case).

[topscorer]

I don't disagree with much of that Danny, however I would say that we didn't entirely spend all our money on youngsters last summer, perhaps the biggest problem we have had is that the "ready now" players we bought, Balotelli, Lovren, Lallana and Lambert, have contributed so very very little. If those had worked out differently... well, it is mostly irrelevant now.



We do lack players who will stand up, but I don't think it is unreasonable to hope some of the likes of Can, Coutinho and Henderson become players like that soon, or to think we may be able to bring in others with that sort of mentality who aren't just players with promise.



As for virtually abandoning next season before this one even finishes, that is a bit too defeatist for me. And the 4th thing, are we seriously going to say that once back in it we expected to be able to stay in it every season? ManU spent nearly £200m net over the last 12 months on a side that were champions 2 years ago. There was always going to be a chance of us slipping back, yes we should have done so much better and really have had a disappointing season but we broke that mould in '13-'14, it can be done again.

It's quite revealing when you consider all the money the Mancs spent and in the end they've barely made it into the top 4 when they had no European football and no cup runs.

I'm sure the Manc supporters are happy to be back in the Champions League but last season they said we only had a title run because we had no European football.

We've lost the Champions League place this summer rather than them winning it.

They'll spend at least another $200m on players this summer.

What will we do?

[Fosterbloke]

It's quite revealing when you consider all the money the Mancs spent and in the end they've barely made it into the top 4 when they had no European football and no cup runs.

I'm sure the Manc supporters are happy to be back in the Champions League but last season they said we only had a title run because we had no European football.

We've lost the Champions League place this summer rather than them winning it.

They'll spend at least another $200m on players this summer.

What will we do?

If the top four teams keep pumping ridiculous amounts of money and leaving everyone else behind (including us) then either the league will cap something to make it more competitive or we can just accept the way it is and look forward to hopefully winning the non-top 4 league (5th place) each season.

[Nicey]

Take Suarez and Sturridge out of any team and replace them sith Ballotelli in a system not suited to him or Ricky Lambert or Fabio Borini .... I mean whos surprised ... we came into the this campaign short up front ... and we finished 5th ... hardly rocket science ... whats encouraging though put a couple of goal scorers into that squad and we could have easily been 12 points better off ..

[frank the tank]

At least we can point to ways to contain a league winning side and then build on them next season.

I am not sure yesterdays game tells us anything to be honest. Apart from what we knew already - that we need a striker.

In reality Chelsea were playing well within themselves, they were just after a few days on the pop and he rotated a good few players as well. So what we actually learned is that he can play half a dozen of his back up players, they can play about 75% intensity and still not get beaten by us.

I think we had our chance for the first 15 minutes in the second half. Jose sensed that we were going to score because we were creating a lot and he brought off that young fella for Matic. After that it was going to have to be something special to beat Courtois from outside the box or something.

It's like getting an equalizer just before half time, it will gives the team the impetus to push on in the second half (or next season in this case).

The funny thing is we actually did get the equaliser just before half time!!! And although we started the second half well, when it came down to it we were all fart and no poo......we just couldnt follow thru!!!

[rodo]

[G]

We don't throw the kitchen sink often enough. Last 5 games have all been must win and we won one of them. How often do we take a defender off for an attacker and just go for it. We always sub a striker for striker or midfielder for midfielder. Fair do's we don't have many options on the bench the manager trusts but they are what they are, stick them on and give it a go.

[Alex]

We don't throw the kitchen sink often enough. Last 5 games have all been must win and we won one of them. How often do we take a defender off for an attacker and just go for it. We always sub a striker for striker or midfielder for midfielder. Fair do's we don't have many options on the bench the manager trusts but they are what they are, stick them on and give it a go.

I would love to see us go balls out in some games to try and win it. I cant remember the last time we did though.

I guess a lot of the issue is that usually the Kitchen sink is injured or playing for Barcelona.

[frank the tank]

If the top four teams keep pumping ridiculous amounts of money and leaving everyone else behind (including us) then either the league will cap something to make it more competitive or we can just accept the way it is and look forward to hopefully winning the non-top 4 league (5th place) each season.

I'm not so sure. We were probably 5th highest spenders last season as well - when we came 2nd.....so your theory doesn't really apply for that.

I think that with clever coaching and scouting, then teams like LFC will be able to challenge in fits and spurts but I think you are right about sustaining a challenge over a prolonged period.

I think the times of one team winning, say 6 leagues in 8 years are over.

Also though, I think if you look at the squads of all of the top teams, then there is reason for optimism for LFC having a chance of getting back into the top 4:

1. Chelsea have a great team on paper and have key players in key positions. They have a striker in Costa who isn't going to ever be the best striker in the league but he is effective and with Hazard, Fabregas and one of Oscar, Willian or Cuarardo behind him, then you know they are going to create chances. With a typical mourinho team always being hard to beat, then they have reasons to be confident. However, just how long will Mourinho stay there? He speaks about being there for years but Abramovich has got bored before and it wouldnt surprise me if he had a go for Guardiola or something........especially if they crash in europe in the next 2 seasons. Also, they will have trouble replacing John Terry in 12 months or so i reckon.

2. Arsenal have a good team and for me if i was an arsenal fan, then I would be optimistic about the future. Why? Because they have hit their stadium debt hard and are in a position where they can spend some serious cash in the transfer market - as the last 2 summers when they spent 42m on Ozil and 35m on Sanchez proves. Add a few top players in centre back and centre midfield and they are a strong team all over the pitch. The one really good thing they have going is that they can score goals from loads of different sources - with midfielders like Ramsay, Cazorla, Walcott and Ozil all able to help the likes of Sanchez, Giroud and Welbeck in scoring goals. They have strenght in dept. However, what about when Wenger retires - which surely can't be too far away. I reckon he will make a big push to win the league and/or Champions league in the next 2 seasons and then walk away. They will have a period similar to united post-fergie in replacing him because he is essentially the fabric of the club.

3. Man City - they will no doubt spend loads of money and try to attract a big manager like Guardiola but are they really set up for sustained success?? The FFP rules have screwed them this season and the one year they couldn't spend £150m and they struggled. Also some of their signings have been poor - you get the feeling that they don't really want to be part of the club but more about not being able to turn down the wages on offer. Take Sagna as an example, he has certainly pulled up the hand brake. And Yaya Toure obviously doesnt have his mind on the job. What is interesting is the fact that Milner wouldnt sign a new contract with them - because he now seems to play every week.

4. Man United - they have a manager in his late 60's and although they have thrown shed loads of cash at players in the last year, in reality they are not the draw that they were. Depay could be a brilliant signing for them but where does that leave Di Maria?? RVP has peaked and Rooney has about 2 seasons left at the very top before he is on the wane as well. If they lose their goalie to Real Madrid, then they could be looking for about 12 to 15 points a season extra..... and although they generate loads of income that allows them to spend megabucks in the transfer market, when they replace LVG with Giggs, I have no doubt it will be another turmoil year or two for them. It will be interesting to see how they get on juggling champions league with premier league next season as well.


Liverpool - granted we have a manager that doesnt seem to know what formation he wants the team to play, but we all know that we can improve a lot from this season. Its not just a striker or two either. We have a young team and the likes of Emre Can, Moreno, Sakho, Flanagan if he gets fit, Ibe, Coutinho, Henderson, Markovic will all get better with time. They will be a lot better next season.

For me, if we really give the league a go next season - and that would mean treating the europa and CapOne cups like reserve / U21 competitions - and with luck with injuries and one or two good additions, then we can certainly get into the top 4 again.

For me though, getting into the top 4 isn't going to get my juices flowing to be honest - because I genuinely don't think we will win either the league or champions league any time soon......