Joe Gomez

[Irishnev]

Dejan played in the following when the title was far from won.

Started in the home win v Leicester.
Started in the home win v Spurs.
Started in the away win v Villa.
Started the home win v City.
Started in the away win v Palace.
Started in the home win v Brighton.
Started in the away win v Bournemouth.
Started and scored v Napoli at home.
Started in away win v Red Bull Salzburg.

These were some clutch games in our season, City and Leicester were massive at the time, nothing was certain.

He obviously also played v Watford 0-3, but he wasnt the only poor performer that day.

He's forth choice and is never an option off the bench as he takes a while to acclimatise. But he is the go to whipping boy for most, despite it rarely being fair.

Loren got more grief in a ten minute cameo v Everton where we didn't concede than Gomez did in a thrashing v City where we were 3 down at half time and Gomez played so poorly he was replaced at half time by Fabinho.

Gomez is the better player, but has had a few shockers (Salzburg, City) is also poor off the bench (CL Final - watch it) even Virgil has had poor games recently, yet Lovren is the only one people ever mention.

You know my thoughts on Dejan but this is an excellent and balanced argument

[danperkins]

Dejan played in the following when the title was far from won.

Started in the home win v Leicester.
Started in the home win v Spurs.
Started in the away win v Villa.
Started the home win v City.
Started in the away win v Palace.
Started in the home win v Brighton.
Started in the away win v Bournemouth.
Started and scored v Napoli at home.
Started in away win v Red Bull Salzburg.

These were some clutch games in our season, City and Leicester were massive at the time, nothing was certain.

He obviously also played v Watford 0-3, but he wasnt the only poor performer that day.

He's forth choice and is never an option off the bench as he takes a while to acclimatise. But he is the go to whipping boy for most, despite it rarely being fair.

Loren got more grief in a ten minute cameo v Everton where we didn't concede than Gomez did in a thrashing v City where we were 3 down at half time and Gomez played so poorly he was replaced at half time by Fabinho.

Gomez is the better player, but has had a few shockers (Salzburg, City) is also poor off the bench (CL Final - watch it) even Virgil has had poor games recently, yet Lovren is the only one people ever mention.

[Mark79]

Dejan played in the following when the title was far from won.

Started in the home win v Leicester.
Started in the home win v Spurs.
Started in the away win v Villa.
Started the home win v City.
Started in the away win v Palace.
Started in the home win v Brighton.
Started in the away win v Bournemouth.
Started and scored v Napoli at home.
Started in away win v Red Bull Salzburg.

These were some clutch games in our season, City and Leicester were massive at the time, nothing was certain.

He obviously also played v Watford 0-3, but he wasnt the only poor performer that day.

He's forth choice and is never an option off the bench as he takes a while to acclimatise. But he is the go to whipping boy for most, despite it rarely being fair.

Loren got more grief in a ten minute cameo v Everton where we didn't concede than Gomez did in a thrashing v City where we were 3 down at half time and Gomez played so poorly he was replaced at half time by Fabinho.

Gomez is the better player, but has had a few shockers (Salzburg, City) is also poor off the bench (CL Final - watch it) even Virgil has had poor games recently, yet Lovren is the only one people ever mention.

In defence of Gomez (not his performance!) he was subbed against City because he was on a booking and we couldn’t risk a suspension with Matip and Lovren both injured.

To be fair, Gomez’s awful performance got as much attention as any other over the years. But fans accept that any player can have bad days. The difference between how players like Gomez and Lovren are regarded, is the frequency of those bad days.

That’s not to say that there aren’t also occasions where Lovren has been scapegoated.

[Exiled_red]

To be honest I think the problem with Lovren being scapegoated is just that everyone's patience has just worn thin. He still makes the same mistakes that he made when we first signed him, in that he dives in because he can't back down from a battle even if it's the smart thing to do. As the team has got better and better he has stayed and the same level and probably makes mistakes at the same rate as he always has, but the team are making less individual mistakes so now he is probably making a higher percentage of the teams mistakes despite not playing that often (which also doesn't help) that obviously leads to more grief merited or not. There is a tendency to try and point the finger at him for any goal that we concede when he is on the pitch whether he is responsible or not, and it can get laughable at times, but is obviously unfair.

I think he has been a good option as a 4th CB, he's probably the best 4th choice CB in the league, but I think as our game has evolved he has become less and less suited to our style of play, obviously he plays more than you would like any 4th choice CB to play because of injury issues elsewhere. He has had some great moments (Dortmund immediately comes to mind) and contributed to some great team performances, results and trophies, but I think we are at the point now where it probably suits everyone for him to move on.

[baitman]

To be honest I think the problem with Lovren being scapegoated is just that everyone's patience has just worn thin. He still makes the same mistakes that he made when we first signed him, in that he dives in because he can't back down from a battle even if it's the smart thing to do. As the team has got better and better he has stayed and the same level and probably makes mistakes at the same rate as he always has, but the team are making less individual mistakes so now he is probably making a higher percentage of the teams mistakes despite not playing that often (which also doesn't help) that obviously leads to more grief merited or not. There is a tendency to try and point the finger at him for any goal that we concede when he is on the pitch whether he is responsible or not, and it can get laughable at times, but is obviously unfair.

I think he has been a good option as a 4th CB, he's probably the best 4th choice CB in the league, but I think as our game has evolved he has become less and less suited to our style of play, obviously he plays more than you would like any 4th choice CB to play because of injury issues elsewhere. He has had some great moments (Dortmund immediately comes to mind) and contributed to some great team performances, results and trophies, but I think we are at the point now where it probably suits everyone for him to move on.

Some good points raised.
I think the issue is that Lovren plays like an individual and doesnt fit in as part of a defensive unit. All defenders can make a mistake or get done but his decision making is sometimes a little hot headed.
He often goes rogue, loses any discipline and goes diving in or suckered into chasing a player out wide and then effects the overall positioning of the rest of the players as they try to cover for him.
And his slightly creepy 'bessie mates' thing with salah, i wonder if Mo is really feeling the love

[Mark79]

Some good points raised.
I think the issue is that Lovren plays like an individual and doesnt fit in as part of a defensive unit. All defenders can make a mistake or get done but his decision making is sometimes a little hot headed.
He often goes rogue, loses any discipline and goes diving in or suckered into chasing a player out wide and then effects the overall positioning of the rest of the players as they try to cover for him.
And his slightly creepy 'bessie mates' thing with salah, i wonder if Mo is really feeling the love

Criticism of the player is fair, but stuff like that is just pointless and odd.

[dom9]

Criticism of the player is fair, but stuff like that is just pointless and odd.

And said with no apparent sense of irony to boot.

[danperkins]

To be honest I think the problem with Lovren being scapegoated is just that everyone's patience has just worn thin. He still makes the same mistakes that he made when we first signed him, in that he dives in because he can't back down from a battle even if it's the smart thing to do. As the team has got better and better he has stayed and the same level and probably makes mistakes at the same rate as he always has, but the team are making less individual mistakes so now he is probably making a higher percentage of the teams mistakes despite not playing that often (which also doesn't help) that obviously leads to more grief merited or not. There is a tendency to try and point the finger at him for any goal that we concede when he is on the pitch whether he is responsible or not, and it can get laughable at times, but is obviously unfair.

I think he has been a good option as a 4th CB, he's probably the best 4th choice CB in the league, but I think as our game has evolved he has become less and less suited to our style of play, obviously he plays more than you would like any 4th choice CB to play because of injury issues elsewhere. He has had some great moments (Dortmund immediately comes to mind) and contributed to some great team performances, results and trophies, but I think we are at the point now where it probably suits everyone for him to move on.

[danperkins]

Criticism of the player is fair, but stuff like that is just pointless and odd.

Think it was just said in jest

[Mark79]

Think it was just said in jest

Sure, but all it does is qualify the thing about Lovren getting unfairly singled out for ****.

[baitman]

Sure, but all it does is qualify the thing about Lovren getting unfairly singled out for ****.

send him some flowers.

[Mark79]

Great stuff.

[Mr Pink]

Sure, but all it does is qualify the thing about Lovren getting unfairly singled out for ****.

Yaaaa unfair to say that they’re not actually friends, poor Lovren...

That whole thing is a load of bollox anyway- he’s (allegedly) friends with Salah, so what?!? What difference does that make?

[Mark79]

Yaaaa unfair to say that they’re not actually friends, poor Lovren...

That whole thing is a load of bollox anyway- he’s (allegedly) friends with Salah, so what?!? What difference does that make?

Why ‘allegedly‘? What reason do we have to doubt it?

But yeah, ultimately what’s it got to do with anything? That was kind of my point.

[Mr Pink]

Why ‘allegedly‘? What reason do we have to doubt it?

But yeah, ultimately what’s it got to do with anything? That was kind of my point.

Haha, was just trying to ruffle some feathers on here.

Agree that it doesn’t matter- if they’re friends they can hang out, outside of work.