Norwich (H) post match

[Lee]

True, but we are a big club with aspirations to be competing in the CL. What better way to learn?

It is difficult just now as it is hard to predict where the team will be and who will be leading it in 6 months or a year. We need to stabilise though, and missing out on good opportunities for moral boosting wins is not helping the cause - no matter how much better we played.

Definitely.

A good run certainly wouldn't do any harm. Along with a change in the competition's format.

[dww]

There were bits of the match where we played well and pressured Norwich. This was a welcome relief from recent months and I enjoyed it.

When you put the cards face up though we're well into the season where Rodgers should have his system sorted out and using players who work well with it. In reality we are starting again from scratch, trying to find a system and players to match as if it were a first season.

Seeing where we are I can't seeing him doing enough now by christmas to give FSG the faith to continue with him. If someone better becomes available then I can't see any reason why he shouldn't be replaced.

I haven't given up hope for him quite yet, but I do tend to think that the best managers make their own luck in runs like this. Rodgers stuck by Mignolet and this is what he gets.

[Exiled_red]

Although some passages of play were good, Norwich also had their chances too. Also, would we be able to replicate those passages against better opposition?

We're a club full of inexperience from top to bottom, expecting to keep plodding along until something clicks. It's as though someone has the keys to immortality, and is just happy for different things to be tried, with no change in the outcome, hoping that one day, it will actually work.

It said it all when Rodgers said in his pre match presser that one good performance swings opinion. In his case, it doesn't, and that is how out of touch he is with the general consensus from the fans on him. We expect several performances of a good nature, because he doesn't have any credit left. He used it up, and when overdrawn last season.

No one at the club apart from Ayre attends matches, and I don't trust him to report or provide an accurate assessment on things.

Back to the game, and Norwich knew exactly what to do. They overloaded our midfield, and we never responded. Because Norwich are abysmal, our superior quality shone through, but it won't always work out that way. Houllier counted on Owen. Hodgson had Torres and Gerrard on occasions.

I just feel so frustrated with it all. I have no confidence in anyone at the club. I don't even know what the culture of the club is, because I feel that winning isn't one of them. We're just a bog standard club with no personality or ambition. Even under Gillett and Hicks, we had Benitez & co give us an outlet which connected us to what we believed in.

Now, there's nothing there. It's hollow.

It was the first game with the first team using that system, so in theory we should get better, we looked good with two strikers despite the fact that Sturridge is nowhere near match fit or sharp and Benteke had to go off injured, the midfield consisted of Lucas and Milner who have played about 10 games in centre mid between them in the last 12 months. I can see case for things getting better but the problem is based on the performances so far this season they can't get much worse. The question is how much better can/will they get.

[Exiled_red]

I haven't given up hope for him quite yet, but I do tend to think that the best managers make their own luck in runs like this. Rodgers stuck by Mignolet and this is what he gets.

I am not in the sack him immediately / within 2 or 3 games if we don't win them all etc. but I am not convinced by Rodgers anymore. His time here has been very patchy - excellent patches followed by dire patches. After the 2013-14 season I believed that he was capable of getting us to play good football and compete at the top. I was prepared to forgive him last season because of the loss of Suarez and the loss of Sturridge to injury, I believed part way through last season that had sturridge been available we would have made the top 4. The problem for me is that I don't think he will ever change I think that the good and the bad go together and average out at mediocrity. I think that he is capable of turning this season around and maybe we could make the top 4 (I think it is unlikely and to be honest we will be looking at 5th to 8th), but I no longer feel that he could ever take us beyond the top 4 that to me is his ceiling.

As someone who hasn't given up hope for him yet how high do you think he could take us?

[SK]

It was the first game with the first team using that system, so in theory we should get better, we looked good with two strikers despite the fact that Sturridge is nowhere near match fit or sharp and Benteke had to go off injured, the midfield consisted of Lucas and Milner who have played about 10 games in centre mid between them in the last 12 months. I can see case for things getting better but the problem is based on the performances so far this season they can't get much worse. The question is how much better can/will they get.

norwich are one of the few teams that did not press our back line, and allowed us space to set up attacks, they had no attacking outlet and were inviting pressure all game.

very few teams will come to anfield with that game plan.

if we play this way against different opposition with different tactics we'll see if it will work out long term. i very much doubt it.

[dww]

I am not in the sack him immediately / within 2 or 3 games if we don't win them all etc. but I am not convinced by Rodgers anymore. His time here has been very patchy - excellent patches followed by dire patches. After the 2013-14 season I believed that he was capable of getting us to play good football and compete at the top. I was prepared to forgive him last season because of the loss of Suarez and the loss of Sturridge to injury, I believed part way through last season that had sturridge been available we would have made the top 4. The problem for me is that I don't think he will ever change I think that the good and the bad go together and average out at mediocrity. I think that he is capable of turning this season around and maybe we could make the top 4 (I think it is unlikely and to be honest we will be looking at 5th to 8th), but I no longer feel that he could ever take us beyond the top 4 that to me is his ceiling.

As someone who hasn't given up hope for him yet how high do you think he could take us?

The thing is that I've never actually been convinced by Rodgers. I've never been sure and I'm still not. My vague feeling is that he has what it takes but needs to have failed and learned lessons before he fulfills his potential. I'd rather he did that part of his career elsewhere but as he's in place I'm not sure that change is necessarily the right thing to do now.

I tend to agree with your assessment of this seasons prospects.

Bigger picture - I think he is the sort of manager who could exploit a team once it came together. I think he lucked out with the Sturridge, Suarez, Gerrard team and he's shown no signs of knowing how to build a team/squad (even will leeway on the judgement that he's not always had a free had in recruitment). Given our resources relative to other teams in the PL I think 3rd/4th would be the ceiling for all managers most seasons. So, the question I guess becomes do I think Rodgers maximizes our chances of a top 3 finish and I don't think he does. Finding a realistic candidate who is a step change better is not as easy task though IMO.

I also think sometimes, for whatever reason, managers stagnate in a club. I don't feel progress is happening for Rodgers or the team at the minute. If I still feel that way in a month then I'll be fully in the sack him camp.

[Mattshark]

The thing is that I've never actually been convinced by Rodgers. I've never been sure and I'm still not. My vague feeling is that he has what it takes but needs to have failed and learned lessons before he fulfills his potential. I'd rather he did that part of his career elsewhere but as he's in place I'm not sure that change is necessarily the right thing to do now.

I tend to agree with your assessment of this seasons prospects.

Bigger picture - I think he is the sort of manager who could exploit a team once it came together. I think he lucked out with the Sturridge, Suarez, Gerrard team and he's shown no signs of knowing how to build a team/squad (even will leeway on the judgement that he's not always had a free had in recruitment). Given our resources relative to other teams in the PL I think 3rd/4th would be the ceiling for all managers most seasons. So, the question I guess becomes do I think Rodgers maximizes our chances of a top 3 finish and I don't think he does. Finding a realistic candidate who is a step change better is not as easy task though IMO.

I also think sometimes, for whatever reason, managers stagnate in a club. I don't feel progress is happening for Rodgers or the team at the minute. If I still feel that way in a month then I'll be fully in the sack him camp.

I have serious doubts on his judging of players and that makes me wonder if he will ever be able to progress.

[tanner]

It's Norwich FFS

I think you're being disrespectful to Norwich there. They've scored more than twice as many goals as us this season so far, so Brendan wanted to err on the side of caution.

[Exiled_red]

The thing is that I've never actually been convinced by Rodgers. I've never been sure and I'm still not. My vague feeling is that he has what it takes but needs to have failed and learned lessons before he fulfills his potential. I'd rather he did that part of his career elsewhere but as he's in place I'm not sure that change is necessarily the right thing to do now.

I tend to agree with your assessment of this seasons prospects.

Bigger picture - I think he is the sort of manager who could exploit a team once it came together. I think he lucked out with the Sturridge, Suarez, Gerrard team and he's shown no signs of knowing how to build a team/squad (even will leeway on the judgement that he's not always had a free had in recruitment). Given our resources relative to other teams in the PL I think 3rd/4th would be the ceiling for all managers most seasons. So, the question I guess becomes do I think Rodgers maximizes our chances of a top 3 finish and I don't think he does. Finding a realistic candidate who is a step change better is not as easy task though IMO.

I also think sometimes, for whatever reason, managers stagnate in a club. I don't feel progress is happening for Rodgers or the team at the minute. If I still feel that way in a month then I'll be fully in the sack him camp.

I agree with your assessment and as you say he has to make his mistakes to learn I think maybe this job came a little too early for him in honesty. I also think that as he's in place he should probably be given longer - I said that he would get a season baring Hodgson-type form (this season) the run we are on at the moment isn't that bad yet so I think he stays.

I don't think that we will make the top four this seasons because of the decisions we made in the summer. The is no hiding from the fact that this summer was bad - not in terms of the players we bought like last summer, but bad because we didn't have a plan and our approach was very scatter gun and we ended up with players who don't really suit any system.

The dilemma I have is given these circumstances I don't know that bringing in a different manager is going to improve things. If I thought that Klopp or someone else that we could bring in now could get this side into the top 4 this season I would say that it is worth making the change IF he/they were the man we wanted (and not because they were what happened to be available), but to be honest with the areas we are missing players I don't think this squad can make the top 4 whoever is managing it.

I want the next manger to be the right man to take us forward, someone who can get us challenging for trophies - it has to be someone with a high profile. I think that part of the problem with our transfers is that Rodgers doesn't have a profile that will attract top players, and at present we don't have any top players that other top players would want to play alongside. Under Rodgers we can attract players from the PL, 'lower' european teams or players who move from bigger clubs who can't get game time. Under someone like Benitez he was selling a vision but he was able to back it up with the trophies he had won at Valencia, after that he could show we were European Champions - he had something to back up the talk he was giving prospective players Rodgers doen't have that

[badpiggy]

I agree with your assessment and as you say he has to make his mistakes to learn I think maybe this job came a little too early for him in honesty. I also think that as he's in place he should probably be given longer - I said that he would get a season baring Hodgson-type form (this season) the run we are on at the moment isn't that bad yet so I think he stays.

I don't think that we will make the top four this seasons because of the decisions we made in the summer. The is no hiding from the fact that this summer was bad - not in terms of the players we bought like last summer, but bad because we didn't have a plan and our approach was very scatter gun and we ended up with players who don't really suit any system.

The dilemma I have is given these circumstances I don't know that bringing in a different manager is going to improve things. If I thought that Klopp or someone else that we could bring in now could get this side into the top 4 this season I would say that it is worth making the change IF he/they were the man we wanted (and not because they were what happened to be available), but to be honest with the areas we are missing players I don't think this squad can make the top 4 whoever is managing it.

I want the next manger to be the right man to take us forward, someone who can get us challenging for trophies - it has to be someone with a high profile. I think that part of the problem with our transfers is that Rodgers doesn't have a profile that will attract top players, and at present we don't have any top players that other top players would want to play alongside. Under Rodgers we can attract players from the PL, 'lower' european teams or players who move from bigger clubs who can't get game time. Under someone like Benitez he was selling a vision but he was able to back it up with the trophies he had won at Valencia, after that he could show we were European Champions - he had something to back up the talk he was giving prospective players Rodgers doen't have that

Ultimately, Rodgers is not a winner. He's still trying to sell some future version of LFC which he just can't seem to bring to fruition. Whether he's a bull****ter, a total charlatan, a midtable journeyman with a good line in self promotion or a future genius learning the hard way, the stark facts are that he's won nothing, he fails in crunch matches, he ****s around endlessly with formations constantly making the same mistakes followed by the same corrections followed by ultimate failure to achieve his stated goals.

His future is at a far lesser club and at that his stock is falling by the day. And he's bringing LFC with him. I wish I was as certain as so many that Klopp is the answer. A few good years at one club basically. A winner but another manager with a "philosophy". I vote for a, pragmatist. 442, players in their natural positions, high tempo, defend all over the pitch, organised back 4, balls out.

[Exiled_red]

Ultimately, Rodgers is not a winner. He's still trying to sell some future version of LFC which he just can't seem to bring to fruition. Whether he's a bull****ter, a total charlatan, a midtable journeyman with a good line in self promotion or a future genius learning the hard way, the stark facts are that he's won nothing, he fails in crunch matches, he ****s around endlessly with formations constantly making the same mistakes followed by the same corrections followed by ultimate failure to achieve his stated goals.

His future is at a far lesser club and at that his stock is falling by the day. And he's bringing LFC with him. I wish I was as certain as so many that Klopp is the answer. A few good years at one club basically. A winner but another manager with a "philosophy". I vote for a, pragmatist. 442, players in their natural positions, high tempo, defend all over the pitch, organised back 4, balls out.

I don't think it's that he is a charlatan or anything I just don't think he is good enough/ready for a top job. Outside of the premiership who has heard of him, either as a player or as a manager - aside from since he became our manager? We haven't performed in Europe under him so how is he going to attract top players. Compare that to someone like Rafa or Houllier both of whom were well known and respected coaches in the game. Kenny was recognised as one of the best players of his generation and a successful manager a few years back. Even Hodgson had a fairly high profile due to managing around Europe. What does Rodgers have? Previously he could have attracted players by saying come and play alongside Steven Gerrard and Luis Suarez - I'm building a side that's going to compete come and be a part of it. Now he has lost that too. Who is going to come us because we have Rodgers, to play alongside Sturridge, Henderson and Coutinho - who are all decent players to be fair but they don't really have high profiles, and I can't imagine many players across Europe thinking I really want to go to Liverpool and work alongside those. IMO our next manager has to be a proven winner with a high profile, that can convince top players that he is going to be a success here. I'm not sure if Klopp is seen as someone who could do that, Ancelotti is if we could get him.

[BigChief]

I think you're being disrespectful to Norwich there. They've scored more than twice as many goals as us this season so far, so Brendan wanted to err on the side of caution.

Agreed, I think Norwich will be a little miffed they wasted this six-pointer of a game.

[DannyMan2006]

We played better v Norwich, but they are relegation fodder from the Championship and I'd expect us to play them off the park. The fact we still couldn't beat one of the worst sides in the league is a worry.

But yes it was better. Let's imagine that was a Chelsea as opposed to a Norwich. Step in the right direction? Still no. Because this 3 at the back will fail again under Rodgers. It's a temporary formation he will change again. And when he does, we will be right back where we started again.

All it will do is trick us into thinking he knows what he's doing and has a plan. This is what I feared the most tbh. Him doing just enough without convincing to keep his job. Hanging by a thread all season whilst the season fizzles out.

He'd have been sacked by every top club in the world. We are without doubt the one club who would have kept him. And that's probably because we do not think or act like a top club anymore.

[frank the tank]

We played better v Norwich, but they are relegation fodder from the Championship and I'd expect us to play them off the park. The fact we still couldn't beat one of the worst sides in the league is a worry.

But yes it was better. Let's imagine that was a Chelsea as opposed to a Norwich. Step in the right direction? Still no. Because this 3 at the back will fail again under Rodgers. It's a temporary formation he will change again. And when he does, we will be right back where we started again.

All it will do is trick us into thinking he knows what he's doing and has a plan. This is what I feared the most tbh. Him doing just enough without convincing to keep his job. Hanging by a thread all season whilst the season fizzles out.

He'd have been sacked by every top club in the world. We are without doubt the one club who would have kept him. And that's probably because we do not think or act like a top club anymore.

the 3 at the back formation makes no sense when you consider that Lucas was also in the midfield. It was like a wasted player in there.....for me we would have been much much better off with a 442 diamond but with maybe Milner or Emre Can sitting in midfield with Coutinho and the other of Milner / Can in centre behind either Ibe or Firmino at #10, behind Sturridge and Benteke. Against someone like Norwich anyway. This lets coutinho get deeper and run at defenses with an extra option to aim for....

I would love to see someone ask Brendan the following:

- what is the reasoning behind playing 3 centre backs. Presuming that it is one of their jobs (Emre Cans) to bring the ball out of defense and start things, then why also have Lucas in midfield.
- although Moreno is perfectly suited to playing left wing back, how come Clyne was bought if we are going to play 3 centre backs?
- is it just to get a song out of skrtel? who seems to be unable to properly over for the right back?
- is it because he doesnt trust Emre Cans positioning in midfield?
- what does he think is Coutinhos best position? And is this the same best position as Lallana and Firmino?
- if the play was always to ppartner Benteke and Sturridge, then why not play Benteke with a partner up until now....so that the team can form some sort of continuity.

[frank the tank]

i think the villa game could be a tipping point. Drop points and i suspect the wriiting will be on the wall.

i think he will be the manager for about 5 more games.....but the writing could be on the wall after the villa game