[PL] Arsenal (A): Post Match

[danperkins]

The system we have can work well with the right players, IMO what we are lacking is players who are able to win the ball back - these don't have to be DMs as such, but for me a lot of the problem is that teams get a lot of the ball an put us under sustained periods of pressure, if we had players who could win the ball back we would break up these periods of play and not allow the opposition to control the game for long periods.

Sometimes watching us it feels like we have flipped a switch from attack to defense and while in that defense mode we are just getting back in shape trying to get back behind the ball, make ourselves tight and compact but we don't seem to bother about trying to win the ball back and to be honest our 'defensive mode' play is terrible. For me I think a large part of it is a lack of leadership.

completely agree with this.

[Fredo]

This DM obsession amongst the fans is reminiscent of the whole CM argument under Rafa when fans (thanks to Andy Gray) argued that there was no need to 2 holding/controlling midfielders. That was how Rafa liked to set up (funny that most teams do now, likewise mark zonally) and wasn't going to change, just like it doesn't look like Klopp sees a need for a DM in his team. I'm sure if he could sign the complete package he would (does Dahoud fit this profile?), but it seems obvious that physical attributes and ability to contribute in attack are more important than having a specialised DM. The onus is on the team to defend well as a unit and press in numbers, not have a Mascherano or Kante type to sit and tidy up.

It's not an obsession but common sense, especially that whoever plays in that position at the moment, has to sit. So it's not preposterous to say that we need a specialist.

[RichC]

And yet if we don't play a system that plays with a sitting midfielder then going on about needing one is exactly that.

[Assassin]

Liverpool covered 117.6km against Arsenal, their highest distance ever in the Premier League

[Fredo]

But Henderson played as one yesterday, so I think we do use it to some extent. How many times did he venture forward yesterday?

[danperkins]

[RichC]

I don't think we'll play with what people term as a DM its all about movement and work-rate it seems. You could see us playing with perhaps Matip or Lucas against some sides though, thinking Mourinho and his Manc side in particular where a bit of physicality might be useful.

Looking at how we've set up though since Klopp has come in and our transfer policies this summer the likes of a "destroyer" in the middle such as Kante who offer little else isn't the type of player we're looking for

[danperkins]

In our counter attacking system surely a ball winner that releases the ball quickly, would be a great asset?

[RichC]

There is more than one way of winning the ball back which seems to be Klopps ethos hard work, pressing and pressure on players with pace and movement once we've got the ball.

[Fredo]

I don't mean we need a destroyer ala Kante. We need someone who can dictate and organise whenever we set out to attack so that we're not exposed when we do lose the ball. Henderson played that role well yesterday but it's not his natural game, neither is for Can. Grujic as well look to be the type who could contribute offensively.

I guess maybe Klopp thinks that Stewart could become that type of player medium term.

[Vermilion]

What is or was wrong with Sturridge ? (Don't answer that Harv!)

He was said to be fit but not in the sqaud before the game.

[RichC]

I think it's tough to say whether Can or Hendo could play that role TBH as Klopp has changed our style a fair bit and how the players adapt to that will determine whether they can do it long term - Can especially could fit in there with the experience he has playing as a full back for the German national side.

What is clear though is if he doesn't think whomever is up to it he'll be bombing them out.

[danperkins]

There is more than one way of winning the ball back which seems to be Klopps ethos hard work, pressing and pressure on players with pace and movement once we've got the ball.

Of course rich, but I do agree with what Nige & Exiled are saying. We are playing attack minded players in deeper roles. IMO, not only is it negating their natural game but they aren't suitable protection for the CB's. Seen it alot last season and yesterday. Can was good in Europe but that's only a few games, you can see he wants to burst forward .. must be frustrating for him. I just trust Henderson, Can & certainly not Wijnaldum in the deep roles.

I just think it's a bit of shame sacrificing the progressive game of Can, Hendo & Wijnaldum. Can beside Henderson is probably the preferred line up at the moment but IMO they'll get exposed throughout the season. These players might adapt, be fantastic and conversation about a specialist or ball winner will be irrelevant but personally I'm hoping we'll pick up a specialise before the window shuts. I really like Lucas but he doesn't seem to be a favourite under Klopp & his legs looked a bit jaded last season.

[RedReet]

But Henderson played as one yesterday, so I think we do use it to some extent. How many times did he venture forward yesterday?

Well he made more passes in the attacking third than any of our other midfielders and his average position was very similar to Wijnaldum, so he wasn't really playing as a DM, even if that was his starting position.

And the point is, regardless of whether you think a DM is 'common sense', all the signs from Klopp indicate that he doesn't, just like Rafa wasn't going to change his midfield setup, or Rodgers stop playing Gerrard CM because a lot of fans think they know better than the manager.

Klopp couldn't easily have bought a DM this summer, or utilised Lucas there towards the end of last season, but he choose not to, the players we've been liked with and the ones we brought in are of a certain type and not many of them seem to be too defensive minded.

[Muddled]

There is more than one way of winning the ball back which seems to be Klopps ethos hard work, pressing and pressure on players with pace and movement once we've got the ball.

Which is highlighted by Lallana and Mane's ability to win the ball back. The latter winning six tackles and recovering the ball eight times (the joint most on the pitch). We're defending from the front and whilst there is clearly room for improvement in the centre of the park we will defend as a unit with no one midfielder anchoring.

Thinking of Klopp's previous teams (with my limited knowledge of Dortmund) I don't think he ever played with a defensive midfielder in the truest sense.