Alisson Becker

[dom9]

Such staunchly detailed arguments for something people know absolutely nothing about.

The Internet in microcosm.

[Mark79]

That's sort of my point, their 'problems' are debatable. I'd argue that Mig was a better all round keeper by the time he left, but ultimately still not good enough and never was. Karius had definitely shown signs of improvement and what happened with him was completely random and hardly something you can blame the coach for.

I too searched for the Reina quotes as something rang a bell with me, but either way, Pepe went through numerous coaches after Valero left and his best form was actually the final few months he was here, which I assume was under Achterberg.

Most of the accusations against Achterberg were assumptions and guesswork and I always found it odd that so many fans claimed to be experts on the subject, especially as those who worked with him generally spoke quite highly of him. Klopp absolutely loves him and has done from day 1 and if you believe the Mel Reddy article from last summer, Alisson probably wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for him.

I don’t agree that the issues were debatable. Each keeper became increasingly erratic and error prone over the course of being here. I don’t think any of them left as better keeper than when they arrived.

Reina only had 2 coaches after Valero. Mike Kelly, who was only here as long as Hodgson was and Achterberg. Reina’s best form was in his first 4 years (under Ochotorena and Valero) not his final few months. His last few years at Liverpool saw a big decline from him.

Mignolet was reportedly Achterbergs choice and I don’t remember him being so error prone at Sunderland or think he improved while at Liverpool.

Karius did show improvement before that final, but only on his own initial up and down Liverpool form, not on his form in Germany by all accounts.

As I say, my reasons for doubting Achterberg weren’t based on random guesswork. It was after seeing 3 successive 1st team keepers struggle over a period of about 9 years since he’d been coach.

[Exiled_red]

What problems? Form and confidence and generally going alarmingly downhill.

Admittedly I can’t find any Reina quotes so it could be I’m just remembering internet or media talk, as you say. I just remember reading that Reina was not a fan of his methods.

Speaking for myself though, it was the pattern of keepers getting worse rather than improving that made me concerned about Achterberg.

Happily though, I’d pretty much forgotten about that since Alisson has been here, which is credit to both of them. I still say the concerns were reasonable though, even if they weren’t correct.

I know alot of people who had similar criticisms of Joe Corrigan when he was our GK coach. I think it is really difficult to tell whether it is the player or coach particularly as GK coaches will probably only work with a handful of GKs and over a period of 10 years probably only about 3 or4 of them will play regularly.

[Zapater]

Not that it counts for a lot here, but Doni was full of praise for Achterberg. Read an article a while ago where he claims contacting him about Alisson before he broke into Inter's team. I know that Doni isn't remembered in the best light, but he was a seasoned pro with many years of experience and a full international. I was also suspect of him, but who knows what happens behind the scenes, nothing that we can really call.

Can't be bothered re-reading it, but assume this is the article I was referring to: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...egacy-15071211

[RedReet]

What problems? Form and confidence and generally going alarmingly downhill.

Admittedly I can’t find any Reina quotes so it could be I’m just remembering internet or media talk, as you say. I just remember reading that Reina was not a fan of his methods.

Speaking for myself though, it was the pattern of keepers getting worse rather than improving that made me concerned about Achterberg.

Happily though, I’d pretty much forgotten about that since Alisson has been here, which is credit to both of them. I still say the concerns were reasonable though, even if they weren’t correct.

That's sort of my point, their 'problems' are debatable. I'd argue that Mig was a better all round keeper by the time he left, but ultimately still not good enough and never was. Karius had definitely shown signs of improvement and what happened with him was completely random and hardly something you can blame the coach for.

I too searched for the Reina quotes as something rang a bell with me, but either way, Pepe went through numerous coaches after Valero left and his best form was actually the final few months he was here, which I assume was under Achterberg.

Most of the accusations against Achterberg were assumptions and guesswork and I always found it odd that so many fans claimed to be experts on the subject, especially as those who worked with him generally spoke quite highly of him. Klopp absolutely loves him and has done from day 1 and if you believe the Mel Reddy article from last summer, Alisson probably wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for him.

[danperkins]

To be fair Becker was always top notch before he got here... that's why we paid a **** load of money for him. The way he plays is exactly why we bought him so not sure Achterberg comes into the conversation as regards to Alisson but I do agree that Klopp would not have any sub standard staff on his coaching team so the fella must be doing something right... either that or he's a super nice guy and Jurgen just doesn't have the heart to tell him to **** off. Probably the former, maybe not..... things are so good now who cares.

[Mark79]

What problems? And what exactly did Reina say?

What problems? Form and confidence and generally going alarmingly downhill.

Admittedly I can’t find any Reina quotes so it could be I’m just remembering internet or media talk, as you say. I just remember reading that Reina was not a fan of his methods.

Speaking for myself though, it was the pattern of keepers getting worse rather than improving that made me concerned about Achterberg.

Happily though, I’d pretty much forgotten about that since Alisson has been here, which is credit to both of them. I still say the concerns were reasonable though, even if they weren’t correct.

[RedReet]

No, it was Reina’s criticism of his methods and successive keepers also appearing to have the same problems.

What problems? And what exactly did Reina say?

[Mark79]

It was always a 1+1=3 Internet storm that made no sense whatsoever.

No, it was Reina’s criticism of his methods and successive keepers also appearing to have the same problems.

[RedReet]

Speak for yourself.

I've never understood the criticism. Do you think Klopp would have anyone on his coaching team that isn't up to scratch? It just wouldn't make any sense.

It was always a 1+1=3 Internet storm that made no sense whatsoever.

[dom9]

To be fair Shaggy I think we all did

Speak for yourself.

I've never understood the criticism. Do you think Klopp would have anyone on his coaching team that isn't up to scratch? It just wouldn't make any sense.

[Mark79]

I was definitely worried about Achterberg. Not unreasonable considering every keeper under him from Reina onwards happened to become increasingly error strewn and devoid of confidence.

If the outfield players aren’t performing, you question the suitability of the coach? Same thing.

But Klopp obviously likes him and importantly, Alisson has spoken in favour of him and is continuing to thrive here 18 months on. So all is good and credit to Achterberg.

[SB]

To be fair Shaggy I think we all did

[Shaggy]

Yeah, he rates him highly as a coach and has singled him out for praise a few times.

Think I’ll go with the opinion of JK on this one and he’s clearly doing a good job

I'm not sure, but I think I may have criticised Achterberg in the past, but it's clear to me I was wrong and they were just **** / substandard goalkeepers.

[RichC]

Yeah, he rates him highly as a coach and has singled him out for praise a few times.

Think I’ll go with the opinion of JK on this one and he’s clearly doing a good job