Mitigation : our injury list

[Kenneth]

Shaq does a very good job wide right for Switzerland. And it would be interesting to see ox get a game in an advanced CM role. Think he'd score a few at least.

[Exiled_red]

Obviously the injuries have had a massive effect not just on the defence but on the midfield too, and the loss of leaders on the pitch has impacts in other ways. But I feel that there are other issues too. I don't think that the loss of players to injury explains everything. We were starting to see a drop off in performance since the return of football after the first lockdown. While we were getting results there were still signs which were cause for concern earlier in the season.

The impact has also been felt in midfield, at the start of the season I think that we would have expected a midfield 3 from Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Thiago. Obviously Henderson and Fabinho have been seconded to the defence and have had injures to deal with too, but for much of the season we have been able to put at least 2 of those out in midfield and Jones has stepped up more than most would have expected, so I feel that hasn't had as much of an impact on the midfield as some have suggested, but there have been little opportunities for rotation which is what we have tended to do in midfield in the past. So I am split between feeling sorry for them and feeling frustrated by the fact that we aren't seeing enough from them. You might expect that with so many defenders out our midfield is playing more defensively to compensate, but I don't feel that that is happening. Last year if the full backs went forward then Henderson or Fabinho would fill in for them, teams would rarely be left 2 v 2 with our centre backs this season is happening it is happening more, you might expect this as you could argue that Wijnaldum and Thiago are the more attacking of our main 4 midfielders, but that being the case you would expect us to be seeing more attacking play (and concede more goals) but we aren't seeing more attacking play, we are barely creating chances probably only a couple of real chances yesterday. We have failed to score in 6 of the last 10 PL games and our strikers aren't exactly missing sitters. I feel while we have clearly been impacted by injuries, some players really need to step up and show what they are made of because they haven't been doing that so far IMO.

I agree with the others who have said that we need to change the system because what we have at the moment isn't working, but some of the players need to take a look at themselves, and Klopp needs to look at how they have reacted to this adversity and decide if they are really the type of players that we want going forward...

[BigChief]

What's really weird is media buying into "well it's only VvD really" line. Fake news in this world is going nuts, obviously not just in football. I'm having to explain all sorts of truths to my children and I fear when I have passed and this becomes their version of the truth with no one to correct them.

Sorry, sidetracked. The media point stands, no one really believes we have serious injuries.

[wiw]

You've put some work in there Buzzo, so I won't dismiss it with a one liner. But, it shouldn't be crippling our offensive game to the extent we are seeing. Our front three is the same front three that were the highest scoring forward line in Europe over the last couple of years, the loss of Jota, while big for us because of the poor form of Bobby and Mane is not equivalent to one of the teams listed losing a long term regular striker option, only the Werner one is really equivalent, and maybe not that because he's been ****e. We have been able to play a supposedly strong midfield nearly all season. While our injuries may justify most of the points lost, the way we have lost them suggests it's not the only narrative imo.

Yeah, the other narratives are;

1. They are human.
2. The mind is a powerful thing.
3. Crowds help us, funnily enough.
4. Missing the entire bedrock on which our team was built has funnily enough had an impact on our attacking - who would have thought?!
5. Maintaining that level for too long is impossible - ask City.
6. We have had zero luck.
7. Refs have given us **** all.
8. A full pre-season is vital when you're playing at the levels we achieved the last 2 years.
9. Playing 3 games a week is quite difficult when half your team is missing.
10. They are human.

Have I missed any?

[wiw]

It does though because the foundation of any successful team is built on the defence. Our ability to defend high and compress the game is due to the fact that Virgil and Joe (or Joel) can defend high and cover the space behind. Then, Hendo is in midfield and has the intelligence to cover the full backs, as does Fab. That gives the platform for the forwards.

I agree that 2 of them have come in short which is a worry, but, they’d be getting more space and creating more chances and therefor scoring lore goals if we had an elite level Centre Back pairing - not one that would struggle to get a gig in the Championship.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, the other narratives are;

1. They are human.
2. The mind is a powerful thing.
3. Crowds help us, funnily enough.
4. Missing the entire bedrock on which our team was built has funnily enough had an impact on our attacking - who would have thought?!
5. Maintaining that level for too long is impossible - ask City.
6. We have had zero luck.
7. Refs have given us **** all.
8. A full pre-season is vital when you're playing at the levels we achieved the last 2 years.
9. Playing 3 games a week is quite difficult when half your team is missing.
10. They are human.

Have I missed any?

Unlikely, seeing how much you stretched the 10 for sarcastic effect.

[Rich]

Now obviously, disruption in defense has a knock on effect, but Klopp's decisions may have actually increased that. Fab is one of the best CDMs around, and an OK CB, so keeping him in MF, covering for actual, but inexperienced, CBs should have limited the impact on our overall play. Ok, we would probably have conceded more goals but could have continued creating them too. The manager's lack of trust in Phillips seems like a poor decision to me. And if we can't afford such an attacking wingback approach with VVD out, then we have to change shape, because 3 in midfield without as much support down the flanks is a recipe for being over run, or bypassed on the counter, which we have seen this season too often.

So yes, injuries are a big mitigation, but we haven't mitigated against them well either.

I think this is it tbh.

We've killed our midfield dynamism for the sake of shoring up the defence.

[wiw]

Unlikely, seeing how much you stretched the 10 for sarcastic effect.

I don't think any of it is a stretch to be fair.

[Buzzo]

I think this is it tbh.

We've killed our midfield dynamism for the sake of shoring up the defence.

It’s a tricky one though as had we kept our midfield maybe our defence would have been far too weak. We’d have been looking at it being Williams and Phillips for some games

We’ll never know.

[Mark79]

When you’re carrying 5-8 injuries every week, there’s simply no avoiding some area of the team being compromised.

[Exiled_red]

It’s a tricky one though as had we kept our midfield maybe our defence would have been far too weak. We’d have been looking at it being Williams and Phillips for some games

We’ll never know.

We lost most of the games anyway, would just have made the GD worse, might as well have gone down swinging

[Buzzo]

When you’re carrying 5-8 injuries every week, there’s simply no avoiding some area of the team being compromised.

We lost most of the games anyway, would just have made the GD worse, might as well have gone down swinging

[Tribute]

Yeah, the other narratives are;

1. They are human.
2. The mind is a powerful thing.
3. Crowds help us, funnily enough.
4. Missing the entire bedrock on which our team was built has funnily enough had an impact on our attacking - who would have thought?!
5. Maintaining that level for too long is impossible - ask City.
6. We have had zero luck.
7. Refs have given us **** all.
8. A full pre-season is vital when you're playing at the levels we achieved the last 2 years.
9. Playing 3 games a week is quite difficult when half your team is missing.
10. They are human.

Have I missed any?

You missed:

Bobby, Mane and Salah conversion rates this season are abysmal compared to last season. At one point we had over 100 chances created with a mere handful of goals. As bad as injuries and defence and midfield have been this season... if you have the ball... in front of goal... and can't put it in... that's down to the front three alone. Irrespective of the challenges across the rest of the team...

[Doc_Piptorious]

You missed:

Bobby, Mane and Salah conversion rates this season are abysmal compared to last season. At one point we had over 100 chances created with a mere handful of goals. As bad as injuries and defence and midfield have been this season... if you have the ball... in front of goal... and can't put it in... that's down to the front three alone. Irrespective of the challenges across the rest of the team...

Not having that about Salah's return this season.

Salah's goals have been worth 11 points to the team this season. Take away his goals and that is how much of a swing there is. No other player has an output that is worth that to us this season.

To date in the PL he has had 77 shots, 35 on target and has scored 17 goals.

He is also outperforming his xG for the season so far.


Last season in the PL Salah took 132 shots, 59 on target with a goal return of 19. And he slightly underperformed compared to his xG.

Compared to last season, Salah has also improved his successful tackle % this season and has improved his completed pass % this season.

If any of our front three has been doing his job this season, it has been Salah and his conversion rate compared to last season has actually improved.

[super_xabi]

Will we actually see Ben Davies ever play for the first team?

If not why exactly was he bought? A youth team player can sit on the bench at best and never play instead