Preseason 2021

[memzey]

We avoid the freak amount of injuries we had last season and our current squad is good enough to be challenging for the title let alone a top four spot.

We add one or two more quality players between now and the end of the window and my gut feeling that we will win the title this season will only get stronger.

My thoughts exactly.

[Rich]

As with previous seasons, our first 11 is stronger than all the rest (IMO), our squad isn't a patch on City's, Chelsea's and probably United's now.

So if we have minimal amount of injuries then we've got a good chance.

[Fredo]

From what I've seen in pre-season, Elliot seems to be ideal as 1 of that midfield 3. Definitely a role for him long term, so I'm not too sure getting a midfielder is going to be good for his progress. Then we have Curtis Jones...

[Mark79]

Depends what you use as the baseline for comparison. Comparing players based on their best ever form then yes, basing it on more recent from then absolutely not. Which is more representative going into the new season?

On most recent form, the last 12 games of last season, we were the best team in the league.

And that was still without the 1st three centre backs, the 4th and 5th choice at alternating times and Jordan Henderson.

[Kenneth]

We weren’t, we had the easiest run in, and the league was decided early.

[Mark79]

We weren’t, we had the easiest run in.

On points, we were. We were also the form team for the 1st 15 games, did we have the easiest run then too?

[Kenneth]

Second to Spurs after 10 games and 4th after 20. Everton were top at one point. But either way, I was referring to the form of important players, like Bobby, Mane, the fullbacks, the keeper. None of whom were at their best last season, and you have to go to the first half of the season before to find their best form. Is that controversial?

[greenturnip]

I worry about our midfield. If Thiago or Hendo pick up knocks, we have Fab to screen the defence, but who creates chances for the front 3..? If Robbo and Trent play blinders all season they could make up for a more workmanlike midfield...but I'd like another option. How about a sneaky bid for de Bruyne?

[Mark79]

Second to Spurs after 10 games and 4th after 20. Everton were top at one point. But either way, I was referring to the form of important players, like Bobby, Mane, the fullbacks, the keeper. None of whom were at their best last season, and you have to go to the first half of the season before to find their best form. Is that controversial?

Ffs, 2nd to Spurs on goal difference for one game, then back top for the next 6.

Is what controversial? You asked what the baseline for comparison was and my answer was results.

There’s loads of reasons why players weren’t at their best last season. But if you’re talking about the form of individual players, then actually, the fullbacks, Bobby and Mané all improved towards the end of the season. A big contributor to regaining form as a team, as evidenced by the performance and results in near enough the closing 3rd of the season.

[Paul12]

A proper back up right back would be ideal though.

On the basis of the pre-season friendlies so far, the same could be said of the left-back position!

[Kenneth]

Ffs, 2nd to Spurs on goal difference for one game, then back top for the next 6.

Is what controversial? You asked what the baseline for comparison was and my answer was results.

There’s loads of reasons why players weren’t at their best last season. But if you’re talking about the form of individual players, then actually, the fullbacks, Bobby and Mané all improved towards the end of the season. A big contributor to regaining form as a team, as evidenced by the performance and results in near enough the closing 3rd of the season.

So the comparison was our starting eleven vs the other top sides and the claim that, man for man, we are as good or better. I said that comparison depends on when you compare the quality of our team, because it was true at our best, as demonstrated by us winning the title, but more recent form, ie the last 18 months tells a difference story. I think the last 18 months are a better indicator of the level we are at than the 18 months prior to that. You argue that being top early on last season and a good late (relatively easy) run-in shows that we are currently a match for the likes of City, and I’m saying your evidence is weak (ie early season with few points earned doesn’t show much, and a late run, with city having it wrapped up). Does that summarise it well enough?

[Buzzo]

Your negativity has been set to eleven already I see Kenneth

[Kenneth]

If saying that our current first eleven isn’t as good or better than Man City’s is off the scale negativity, then I guess it has. I’m happy to be in the midst of a wave of positivity though.

[rudedog]

Pfft, our first 11 doesn't need to better than City's

Klopp is a better manager than Pep
Anfield atmosphere is light years ahead of the Ethiad

I'm optimistic that we will see a massive improvement this year and have no interest in matching City's first eleven. I love it that they have a better team on paper as it will make it all the more sweeter when we finish ahead of them

[Mark79]

So the comparison was our starting eleven vs the other top sides and the claim that, man for man, we are as good or better. I said that comparison depends on when you compare the quality of our team, because it was true at our best, as demonstrated by us winning the title, but more recent form, ie the last 18 months tells a difference story. I think the last 18 months are a better indicator of the level we are at than the 18 months prior to that. You argue that being top early on last season and a good late (relatively easy) run-in shows that we are currently a match for the likes of City, and I’m saying your evidence is weak (ie early season with few points earned doesn’t show much, and a late run, with city having it wrapped up). Does that summarise it well enough?

Well for a start, that’s the 1st time you’ve actually defined what you consider ‘more recent form’ to be. I still say the final 3rd of last season, or 12 games, is a reasonable consideration for ‘recent form’, which is what you asked for.

Your ‘Early season with a few points’ is a actually the first 40% of the league season. We got more points than any other team managed and with the best goal difference. And that’s with key injuries already piling up since game 4.

The ‘late run in’ or the final 12 games, which is what I put up as recent form, accounts for 30% of the season. Again, we picked up more points per game and had the 2nd best goal difference in that period.

In other words, despite all those injuries and missing 1st team players, our points per game was the best in the league for 70% of last season.
Now, if you’re saying that that amount of the season is accounted for by us having an easy run of games or by City having the league wrapped up, then frankly your head must be cut.

We were undone by a catastrophic 5 week period in between, during Feb/March where we lost 6 out of 7 games. Had we averaged even 2 points a game (which would still have been below even the 1st 15 games and way below us at our full strength best), we’d have been tight with City going into those last 12 games. The ‘easy run in’.

Now then, Kenneth. Of those 3 periods, which do you think is most representative of the performance our team is likely capable of next season?

Because if this team can produce league best form for 70% of a season, (the most recent season, the most recent form, for everyone) when they were dealing with that many injuries and players off form, then is it not fair to claim that a full strength version of this team is still as good as, if not better than the rest?

I think that summarises it well enough.