Brentford away PL thread

[Kenneth]

Qualitative in what way? Ironically you seem to be focused on half a dozen results last season (we won 5 from 6 away in that same period) which will just never happen again in a normal season.

That post was nothing to do with Mane. Before you were corrected you were arguing that our current form (based on last season) suggested we would struggle this year. Even though that was factually incorrect (https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/sho...97#post3726997), you are now arguing the exact opposite.

My memory is **** these days, so maybe I'm wrong, but as much as I always disagreed with you, I'm sure you used to be consistent in your negativity, which I actually liked, believe it or not.

You only needed to read a few posts down.

Second to Spurs after 10 games and 4th after 20. Everton were top at one point. But either way, I was referring to the form of important players, like Bobby, Mane, the fullbacks, the keeper. None of whom were at their best last season, and you have to go to the first half of the season before to find their best form. Is that controversial?

I’m not even being negative. You’re searching old posts to object to the idea that extrapolating from small number of games to suggest an end of season points total is unreliable. Seems odd to me.

[Paul12]

Jota was a bit ****

Brentford's second and third goals came after they overloaded the area around Trent. Overloads happen when one team does something unusual and the other does not respond quickly enough to it. Definitely not Trent's fault.

[frank the tank]

just feels like a lost opportunity after Man U and Chelsea both losing earlier that day.

Definately a good weekend for City. Whereas before the game you'd be thinking that the 3 away games they had coming up (Chelsea, PSG, LFC) could see them a little bit behind, they could easily win those 3 games and start to head off in the distance!!!

I think this seasons premier league will see a load of draws and dropped points compared to recent seasons having City and Liverpool close to perfection. But Brentford away when we lead the game twice to drop 2 points is a disappointment. I get what people are saying about the fact that we have been spoilt in recent years and that was never sustainable - but we were leading the game twice.

[vlahka]

not sure if serious???

Absolutely serious! Not saying Matip is bad but I'd honestly feel more comfortable with Phillips. He's young, slightly faster, and while he played almost every high ball was delt with. Plus he has absolutely no fear in destroying something in his path. Him with VVD together would be great.

[RedReet]

You only needed to read a few posts down.



I’m not even being negative. You’re searching old posts to object to the idea that extrapolating from small number of games to suggest an end of season points total is unreliable. Seems odd to me.

I didn’t need to read down, I remembered the exchange. Regardless of the specifics of individual posts, your argument was that we couldn’t be considered title contenders on current form and that previous data should be ignored. Now that Jaco is using current form to predict future outcomes, you are arguing the opposite, using previous data to discredit him. Admittedly there is some merit in say that 6 games isn’t enough data, but if you extend that to our last 18 games you get the same outcome, much like our average point score over the past 3 season comes in at over 88. Almost every statistical based prediction would have a similar outcome, but instead you are cherry-picking the most random 3 months in the clubs history to justify your arguments. I guess it’s not much different to saying Milan were better than us because they played well for 5 minutes or that we deserved to lose against Brentford because they had a blatant offside goal disallowed, but at least they are consistent with your posting, your logic however in this is extremely hypocritical

[Kenneth]

Ok, so I think you’re just misunderstanding what I was saying. I made no reference to our losing streak, either then or now. I’ll assume that instead of thinking you’re going off on a tirade for no apparent reason.

[RedReet]

Absolutely serious! Not saying Matip is bad but I'd honestly feel more comfortable with Phillips. He's young, slightly faster, and while he played almost every high ball was delt with. Plus he has absolutely no fear in destroying something in his path. Him with VVD together would be great.

There is no way Philips is faster than Matip.

I'd fancy Ron Yeats to beat Philips in a race, even in his 80's.

[Fosterbloke]

just feels like a lost opportunity after Man U and Chelsea both losing earlier that day.

Definately a good weekend for City. Whereas before the game you'd be thinking that the 3 away games they had coming up (Chelsea, PSG, LFC) could see them a little bit behind, they could easily win those 3 games and start to head off in the distance!!!

I think this seasons premier league will see a load of draws and dropped points compared to recent seasons having City and Liverpool close to perfection. But Brentford away when we lead the game twice to drop 2 points is a disappointment. I get what people are saying about the fact that we have been spoilt in recent years and that was never sustainable - but we were leading the game twice.

Well we're top of the league so maybe it was a bad time to play a newly promoted team, full of energy and with no injuries. Wait until later in the season when they're tired and have a few injuries to deal with.

I just wish we had Spurs next.

[RichC]

Absolutely serious! Not saying Matip is bad but I'd honestly feel more comfortable with Phillips. He's young, slightly faster, and while he played almost every high ball was delt with. Plus he has absolutely no fear in destroying something in his path. Him with VVD together would be great.

wow

[Paul12]

wow

[Irishnev]

wow

I’m with you - I love Nat and he was great for us last year. I think Matip is arguably the most under rated player in the Premier League and is normally superb. I think Toney and Mbeumo gave both him and VVD a tough time this weekend but I pray he stays fit and available all season. Their PPG together is title winning form

[Mark79]

You don’t see a difference between a qualitative assessment of the of the squad in comparison with our peers and a pseudo mathematical projection of our points finish based on an extrapolation from half a dozen results?

Your second quote is a bit weird, it was critique of the assumption that the likes of Mane would start this season in peak form despite having been out of form. Was I wrong?

No such assumption was made or even implied, not by me anyway.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I’m with you - I love Nat and he was great for us last year. I think Matip is arguably the most under rated player in the Premier League and is normally superb. I think Toney and Mbeumo gave both him and VVD a tough time this weekend but I pray he stays fit and available all season. Their PPG together is title winning form

Careful with those PPG comments fella

[Exiled_red]

Absolutely serious! Not saying Matip is bad but I'd honestly feel more comfortable with Phillips. He's young, slightly faster, and while he played almost every high ball was delt with. Plus he has absolutely no fear in destroying something in his path. Him with VVD together would be great.

Matip is a far better player than Phillips, Phillips is probably better in the air though. I've said I think Phillips role is or should be coming on late in tight games to try and see games out where teams are launching high balls into the box.

There was some of that at the weekend but we mostly seemed to insist on keeping a high line, I'm not sure sure where Phillips is pace wise amongst our defenders so Matip was probably considered a better all around option, so he stayed on rather than bringing on Phillips in his place.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Matip is a far better player than Phillips, Phillips is probably better in the air though. I've said I think Phillips role is or should be coming on late in tight games to try and see games out where teams are launching high balls into the box.

There was some of that at the weekend but we mostly seemed to insist on keeping a high line, I'm not sure sure where Phillips is pace wise amongst our defenders so Matip was probably considered a better all around option, so he stayed on rather than bringing on Phillips in his place.

Would imagine it is between him and R Williams as to who is the slowest CB at the club. Philips is pretty slow compared to the four main CBs though.

Matip is probably the next "slowest" of the CBs and he is not slow. Certainly far quicker than Philips.

Konate is pretty quick and then we have VVD and Gomez who are both quick as well.


Cannot see any reason why Philips would get a game ahead of any of our four main CBs though. All are far better players than him, all are quicker than him, all suit playing with a high line better than him, all are better on the ball, and he cannot even get in if we needed a very physical player as Konate would have that side locked down with some ease.

If we avoid injuries at CB this season we are in a very nice position with the four main ones we have as anytime we need to rest two, we have two quality CBs to step in for any available game time.

Giving game time to Philips to keep him sharp would be a waste of game time imo unless one or more of VVD, Matip, Gomez or Konate were injured. If all four CBs are fit, then the cup game time, and any times crated through resting a starter has to go to towards keeping Konate, and whichever of Matip or Gomez that does not start, as sharp and fit as possible.

Philips will have to go back to being 5th choice and hope for either injuries, a loan deal or a transfer out.