Liverpool v Ajax (H) CL

[RichC]

I agree obviously on the Thiago front but also Elliot.

Its a shame for Elliot as the rest of the team are subpar, but not winning the ball back in midfield is a massive issue, no more so pointedly than vs Everton when we played Elliot and Carvalho.

I'm not sure we have the players for a midfield three anymore but no point in putting two kids in there who are better at attacking than facing their own goal.

We may see Elliot and Carvalho pushed into the forward three later games where tactical responsibility is a lesser concern.

I think our midfield with the fullbacks and attackers we have need to be workers, Harv and Carvalho whilst going forwards don't offer that cover.

Really have left ourselves short in midfield for this season

[Fierce]

Henderson is not ****, not even a little bit, but he is no longer vital at least not in a being able to rely on him two games a week kind of way imo. Maybe not even in a 90 minutes a week every week kind of way, again imo.

Some years ago we had nobody that did for us what Henderson did game after game. Problem is that Henderson can no longer do what he used to do, not on a regular basis anyway. He needs to become the Milner of the squad and be used in a way where he can give his all when on the pitch and know that he will have lots of recovery time afterward imo.


Thiago reads the game in a manner that Henderson never will, and in Arthur we have younger legs attached to a player who reads the game pretty well.

Neither will be as vocal as Henderson on the pitch, but if they can anticipate play well enough then they do not need to be vocal. Neither Thiago nor Arthur are high energy chase the play and using physicality/speed to plug gaps for 90 minutes kind of players, but then again neither is Henderson anymore.

Right now we need smarts on the pitch. Guys who can read the game. In Fabinho and Thiago we have two of the best in the game at that, and in Arthur we have a guy who has been more than decent at it throughout his career.

My feeling is that we should be looking for some sort of stability in the middle and let that stability bleed into both the attack and back line ahead and behind that midfield.

If Thiago is fit, then he starts every PL game and any important CL game. Rest him in the domestic cups. Same for Fabinho. If fit then he goes into every PL and CL game.

Henderson and Arthur I would be using as the third CM when fit and also as the cover for Thiago and Fabinho.

Anyone else that is a defined CM be it Keita, Jones, Milner etc, we do not reply upon or expect much of for varius reasons, but if fit we rotate them in and out for domestic cup games or to give one of the main four a break.

Elliot and Carvalho I would use as attacking subs or in the domestic games but rarely as CM and rarely as a RCM or LCM and not as the RCM AND LCM in the same game.

Is all just opinion of course, but really do think we need to get back to being "simply" stable and solid as a unit, being efficient, before we can even think of having expectations of being a fluid crushing machine.

We seem, or at least it appears that way to the eyes of a footy fan, to have lost track of a lot of the basics on and off of the pitch. The whys are going to be nothing but conjecture on forums like this, but we can certainly see the result of those unknown whys and throw in our own speculative takes like above.

Get the basics, the simple things, right again, and I genunely think if we can do that soon that a tilt at the title is still not beyond us this season.

We have had an awful start to the season by our recent standards. Really awful, but the one club that is the one to beat for the title is also looking a little shakey at times without having the sort of injury list or collective form drop we are going through. If we are no worse off in terms of points behind City come the start of the Sportswash world cup, then we might have another very exciting second half of a season to enjoy.

But. Right now, as in before the next transfer window, do we have anyone that can do what Henderson can? I agree that he can't do it to the same level either, but that is better than no-one at all

Who should our midfield 3 be right now?

Keita is the obvious choice to play alongside Fab and Thiago but he's made of balsa. Henderson (when fit) is still a better option than Jones, Milner or AOC and I think he'll start the majority of games if fit enough to do so

Arthur is yet an almost totally unknown quantity (for us)

[badpiggy]

We won every game Mane (and Mo) missed due to the afcon last season so I don't think replacing him with Diaz is that big a loss.

I think losing the prem and CL in the manner we did last season has just had a much bigger psychological impact on the team than we thought. The intensity of the run-in took its toll and you could see the team was running on fumes for the last couple of weeks of the season (the FA cup semi against City was probably our last decent game).

Klopps challenge is now remotivating these players - this is where he excels so I have no doubt he can do it

We've got Thiago back and also Arthur has had a decent spell training with the first team so I think we will see a much improved showing tomorrow night.

I think you're on the money. Add in City's purchase of Haaland and it's very hard not to feel like there's a sense of futility in the squad. They gave it everything they had last season and came up short. And City are now better. Tough motivational task there.

[Charly]

Thiago made 6 tackles in 28 minutes against Napoli, I think it's a misconception he can't tackle.



I'd be moving Harv out at the moment, not any fault of his tbh but I think our right is disjointed at the moment and where most of the issues have been coming from us far this season.

But do we really want him going into physical challanges?

6 tackles or 6 interceptions (I didnt see the game)

[Doc_Piptorious]

But. Right now, as in before the next transfer window, do we have anyone that can do what Henderson can? I agree that he can't do it to the same level either, but that is better than no-one at all

Who should our midfield 3 be right now?

Keita is the obvious choice to play alongside Fab and Thiago but he's made of balsa. Henderson (when fit) is still a better option than Jones, Milner or AOC and I think he'll start the majority of games if fit enough to do so

Arthur is yet an almost totally unknown quantity (for us)

Right now (for the Ajax game) with all the injuries and what not, I would be starting with Fabinho, Thiago and Arthur.

If we suddenly had everyone fit then I would be starting with Fabinho, Thiago and one of Henderson, Keita or Arthur. (in that order for the three
battling for the third spot.

The main reason I have a little bit of trust in Arthur is that he and Fabinho by all accounts have a good track record when playing together for the Brazialin national team so there might be a bit of an understanding already in place between those two, and Thiago is simply so good he can adapt to playing to anyone.

Jones I would also have in the mix amongst the back ups as I reckon he is a really good player albeit in a manner that simply does not catch the eye. He is good playing against a press, good at recycling the ball and good at getting the ball. He rarely stands out but he is effective, not dissimilar in a way to when Wijnaldum was at his peak with us but not always standing out for what he did on the pitch.


To kind of answer your Henderson question. I think it is moot whether or not we have someone who can do what Henderson used to be able to do when Henderson himself cannot do what he used to do either.

Think it is much more important to have that stabilty I mentioned earlier. If Henderson can be part of a midfield trio that bnrings that stability then fantastic, however I think it is clear that physically he cannot do that anymore on a regular basis so looking for someone to do what Henderson used to do is redundant.

Henderson has been a great servent to the club and still has at least a few more years to offer imho, but the days of him being able to outwork and outrun midfielders are gone. We have been seeing younger midfielders outwork him and out run him in games for the past 12 months and at some point you have to realise if you cannot outrun/outdistnace players physicall then you need to be able to out think them and use the ball to burn out their physical advantages. Let them chase the ball more, force them to run rather than trying to take them on stride for stride, shoulder to shoulder. Basally pick your battles. Again all imo of course and might be miles off being even slightly wright on any of that.

If a guy reading the game can plug the gaps to a similar degree through anticipation to what Henderson did with raw effort and determination, then that is our best option in the short to medium term imo until we get more bodies back and fully fit.

Ideal world we get guys in who can do both the thinking and physical sides of the game and be all in one packages, but that is a transfer window or two away and those guys are rare to say the least.

Need to be looking at the Barellas, Merinos, Llorentes (Marcos specifically) and so on for guys who can do the engine room blood and guts as well as being able to be thinkers on the pitch.


You want a new Henderson, go get Laimer. Though I think we have missed that chance going by comments attributed to the player in the German media as he is meant to have said that we simply approached him too late and made him feel like he was a rushed decision to go after. Think you will see him going to Bayern for free come next summer.


The lad at Brighton looks really good though. The lad Mac Allister who I thought was a Scot for the previous two seasons and only discovered he was South American a few weeks ago. He even looks like an Irn Bru drinker. .

Think he is available on a free next summer as well. I know we are linked with the other guy at Brighton, Caicedo, but MacAllister looks like he could become a really good number 8 (on either side though I think he has played at LCM more for Brighton but his heat maps show he roams to the right a lot) and not to be overly hyperbolic as this comparison is meant more stylistically than in terms of current quality, but he reminds me a lot at times of Barella both on and off of the ball.

[Tribute]

I think you're on the money. Add in City's purchase of Haaland and it's very hard not to feel like there's a sense of futility in the squad. They gave it everything they had last season and came up short. And City are now better. Tough motivational task there.

...and not forgetting this team/squad have largely been fighting on all fronts for four years on the bounce... getting very close to multiple trophies each season. Last season must have been an absolute killer to take. Especially as a couple of 'their own' also departed, breaking up the band... Mane and Div (for personality and cult status, more than weekly first team impact)

[Tribute]

Anyone else just hear Olive from On The Buses when someone mentions "Arthur...."?

[Venton]

Anyone else just hear Olive from On The Buses when someone mentions "Arthur...."?

That and Willo the Wisp.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Anyone else just hear Olive from On The Buses when someone mentions "Arthur...."?

I hear Terry from Minder saying the name in my head or sometimes it switches to Arthurius being said in Ray Winstone's accent. From the Clive Owen film and not the cartoon.

[Rigadon]

Anyone else just hear Olive from On The Buses when someone mentions "Arthur...."?

I hear Terry from Minder saying the name in my head or sometimes it switches to Arthurius being said in Ray Winstone's accent. From the Clive Owen film and not the cartoon.

Pauline Fowler

[Harv]

Easiest way to help Fabinho is to not put him into a midfield trio where he ends up being the only guy having to do all the defending and closing down.


Get Thiago back in on a regular basis or Thiago and Arthur with Fabinho and we will see a difference in Fabinho's play and also in how we look as a team imo.

This

Fab is doing the work of three men, and people question why he's knackered...

[Norbs]

Anyone else just hear Olive from On The Buses when someone mentions "Arthur...."?

When you get caught between attacking and defending
You know it's crazy, but it's true
When you lose out to some midfielder from Amsterdam
Best that you can do, best that you can do, is take him down

C Cross

[Paul12]

Is Olive or this Minder chap or even Fowler available to play tonight?

And will they be faster than Millie?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Is Olive or this Minder chap or even Fowler available to play tonight?

And will they be faster than Millie?

Minder is dead, so probably could only match Milner in a sprint these days.

Fowler is a tad rotund so unless there is a Mars bar involved you ain't getting sprint from him. Yes yes I know you meant Pauline.


All on Olive then.


EDIT: FFS wiki says she is dead too.


Arthurius it is then for tonight.

[Fivex]

I'd throw Insua in for this one tbh honest :handshaje: