Welcome Endo

[badpiggy]

Think you have pretty much explained why he got more time in his only season with Klopp and also last season under Slot.


He had lots of other mobile players and movement around him then, so he could come into a team and add solidity later on in games and compliment the quick movements around him. That constant movement and lots of transistions meant he could find players easily with the ball and let them do their stuff.


Now he is two years older than when he arrived and the team around him is slower along with him probably being a tad slower himself at 33. He gets the ball now in a deep position and chances are he gets swarmed by opposition players whilst waiting for someone to show for the ball.


IMO of course

Yeah I get that and absolutely, 2 years later a not very quick player to begin with has hardly gotten faster.

BUT, with for example Amorim, ludicrously sticking by a rigid plan when you don't have the personnel rightly lead to endless mockery. What's the real difference here? Decent players benched and given no chance while others are run into the ground all in the service of a kind of standing around style of play.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Yeah I get that and absolutely, 2 years later a not very quick player to begin with has hardly gotten faster.

BUT, with for example Amorim, ludicrously sticking by a rigid plan when you don't have the personnel rightly lead to endless mockery. What's the real difference here? Decent players benched and given no chance while others are run into the ground all in the service of a kind of standing around style of play.

Yes but the point I was making was a player like Endo needs the mobile players around him, and the ones that can progess play with a carry or pass. He needs them to be his "pace" and he then becomes a cog in the machine that helps facilitate said players.

Take those players out or if they are performing below par and then suddenly Endo skill set becomes far more limited and is no longer adding anything to transistions as the same transitions do not exist as they did and/or as often as they did.

He does not carry the ball to a high level and he does not progress it to a high level, and if he cannot quickly get to ball to those that do, then all he can do is become part of the ball staying in our half and potentially slowing play down even further.


I would however be curious as to how he would look as part of a double pivot with Gravenberch, though as he is neither ball carrier nor ball progessor all he could do there would be a shield of sorts and we would have to hope Gravenberch can be the link to further up the pitch with his carries.

Personally I would have Endo as a sub at the most and instead have Jones in the first team instead of MacAllister, let Jones play to the left of midfield (I mean LCM and not LM) ahead of Gravenberch and Szobo on the right of midfield ahead of Gravenberch then when an attack goes down a flank, the full back is backed up by whichever of Jones or Szobo's side of the pitch the attack is going down and the other of Szobo/Jones goes inbto a double pivot with Grav.

For me Grav/Szobo/Jones is our best midfield trio until we can add in the summer. Endo unfortunately adds very little that none of those three cannot do better than him imo other than being a good clinging onto a result in the last portion of a game type sub.

[badpiggy]

Yes but the point I was making was a player like Endo needs the mobile players around him, and the ones that can progess play with a carry or pass. He needs them to be his "pace" and he then becomes a cog in the machine that helps facilitate said players.

Take those players out or if they are performing below par and then suddenly Endo skill set becomes far more limited and is no longer adding anything to transistions as the same transitions do not exist as they did and/or as often as they did.

He does not carry the ball to a high level and he does not progress it to a high level, and if he cannot quickly get to ball to those that do, then all he can do is become part of the ball staying in our half and potentially slowing play down even further.


I would however be curious as to how he would look as part of a double pivot with Gravenberch, though as he is neither ball carrier nor ball progessor all he could do there would be a shield of sorts and we would have to hope Gravenberch can be the link to further up the pitch with his carries.

Personally I would have Endo as a sub at the most and instead have Jones in the first team instead of MacAllister, let Jones play to the left of midfield (I mean LCM and not LM) ahead of Gravenberch and Szobo on the right of midfield ahead of Gravenberch then when an attack goes down a flank, the full back is backed up by whichever of Jones or Szobo's side of the pitch the attack is going down and the other of Szobo/Jones goes inbto a double pivot with Grav.

For me Grav/Szobo/Jones is our best midfield trio until we can add in the summer. Endo unfortunately adds very little that none of those three cannot do better than him imo other than being a good clinging onto a result in the last portion of a game type sub.

I know you're probably right about all of that and yet when he has to fill in, he doesn't look out of place at either RB or even CB. He still feels underused to me and part of Slot's - for me - very frustrating underuse of the squad.

We could have a similar conversation about Chiesa and t me that seems part of a pattern. Yes ultimately despite my best hopes, Chiesa seems not good enough. But at the same time, being thrown on for 5-10 minutes - and never to replace Salah -seems a complete underuse of a very whole-hearted committed player. In fact, against City when he was the replacement for Kerkez - who was playing really well - he just forms part of Slot's "6 forwards must equal more goals" attitude which to me is panicky and stupid. Especially when he left Salah on fffffffffs.

I accept that this all stems from my frustration with Slot rather than any tactical knowledge.

[Charly]

Agree with all of that. Grav's position this season has been an annoyance to me for a long time. He's a good 8 but a world class 6, in his own unique way. I much prefer him playing deeper although I also understand the reasoning behind the change (I just disagree with it).

Jones seems to have come on leaps and bounds in the last year and a half. I'd be very sad if he were to leave.

This is the only reason imho. I just dont get it unless Grav has too much inflence. Make the ****er stay back

[Doc_Piptorious]

I know you're probably right about all of that and yet when he has to fill in, he doesn't look out of place at either RB or even CB. He still feels underused to me and part of Slot's - for me - very frustrating underuse of the squad.

We could have a similar conversation about Chiesa and t me that seems part of a pattern. Yes ultimately despite my best hopes, Chiesa seems not good enough. But at the same time, being thrown on for 5-10 minutes - and never to replace Salah -seems a complete underuse of a very whole-hearted committed player. In fact, against City when he was the replacement for Kerkez - who was playing really well - he just forms part of Slot's "6 forwards must equal more goals" attitude which to me is panicky and stupid. Especially when he left Salah on fffffffffs.

I accept that this all stems from my frustration with Slot rather than any tactical knowledge.

I do agree with the line in bold, though it is also with the advantage of hindsight, with regards to a number of games where in the last 10 minutes, five minutes or whatever when we were hanging on for a win or draw.

Think Endo could have been a useful all hands to the pump option in that sort of game.



Chiesa is actually more puzzling to me as he does provide a goal threat, he does bring a high work rate and he does cause problems for the other team regardless of whether they play a high line or a low block. Chiesa, for me anyway, should be getting a mix of some starts and plenty of 20 to 30 minute run outs. Think he would be a very effective super sub type player. Would also want him to get on pitch familiarity with Wirtz and Ekitike as like them he is very much switched on to the movement of others in his team.

[Catrin]

Endo’s skill deficit is only relevant for teams like us. If he had any pace he would easily be skilful enough for at least half of the EPL.

[vlahka]

Whats that? Endo is awesome and anyone saying otherwise is wrong and should go stand in a corner? Thought so.

[Buzzo]

I love this guy.

[ame]https://twitter.com/arctic68383386/status/2039691911188140386[/ame]

[vlahka]

He deserves far better than hes being offered under slot.

[Kenneth]

Our issues seem more attitude related than ability, and he always has a great attitude, tries his best.