Rio Ngumoah

[RedReet]

I don't see him starting many games (other than League Cup and FA Cup) but his pace and directness are an attribute. I can see him coming off the bench late in games against tired defenders, maybe not from the start of the season but at some point

We have a relatively large squad probably 20 senior players who will be expecting to be in the match day squads so that limits the number of places in the squad available for youngsters when everyone is fit, so my feeling is that at the start of the season it will be easier for him not to be involved initially, keep him grounded after a good pre-season etc.

But looking at the squad we currently only have 5 senior forwards (Salah, Gakpo, Ekitike, Chiesa and Nunez) it looks like Nunez will leave and we are hoping to sign Isak., keeping it at 5, Chiesa didn't play much last season and could be on his way so, there is also the fact Salah will be away for a month, add to that the usual injuries/suspensions etc and it feels like there are minutes there for someone. I would expect Danns, Koumas, Gordon to be out on loan. I think Doak will either move on loan or be sold if the right offer comes in, but even if he stays from what we have seen in preseason Rio is ahead of him. Only other young forward likely to be competing for minutes with him would be Will Wright. It feels inevitable that he is going to get an opportunity at some point for whatever reason and if he shows anything like he has shown in preseason at that point it IMO becomes difficult not to keep him involved.

Think Peterbread made a fair point, considering he's in such good form it makes more sense to get him involved now, harness the momentum. He's buzzing, the fans are buzzing, let's use it to our advantage. If it is too soon for him, send him back to the youth teams, highlight what he needs to work on.

On current form, say we are drawing against Newcastle or Arsenal and need a late goal, who would you rather see come on Ngumoha or Chiesa? (Not saying Rio is better than Chiesa BTW)

In terms of keeping him grounded, I'm not sure that will be an issue. Slot has already called him out publicly for not passing when he could easily have just sang his praises, so I don't think he'd let him get too carried away.

Finally, if we do get Isak he won't be match fit so maybe not ready to start. Ekitike is still unproven and Slot hadn't shown much faith in Chiesa, so even if we did plan on sending Ngumoha back to the reserves, we might have no choice but to use him early on while our new signings get up to speed.

[RedReet]

His name is Rio and he dances down the wing.

He cuts inside and scores and makes the kopites sing.

[Exiled_red]

Think Peterbread made a fair point, considering he's in such good form it makes more sense to get him involved now, harness the momentum. He's buzzing, the fans are buzzing, let's use it to our advantage. If it is too soon for him, send him back to the youth teams, highlight what he needs to work on.

On current form, say we are drawing against Newcastle or Arsenal and need a late goal, who would you rather see come on Ngumoha or Chiesa? (Not saying Rio is better than Chiesa BTW)

In terms of keeping him grounded, I'm not sure that will be an issue. Slot has already called him out publicly for not passing when he could easily have just sang his praises, so I don't think he'd let him get too carried away.

Finally, if we do get Isak he won't be match fit so maybe not ready to start. Ekitike is still unproven and Slot hadn't shown much faith in Chiesa, so even if we did plan on sending Ngumoha back to the reserves, we might have no choice but to use him early on while our new signings get up to speed.

I can see both sides to be honest, it depends on the manager and squad and his plans and thoughts etc. I think in the past we have probably tended to give the approach of not letting players get carried away put them in the squad too early then taking them out is a big blow, doing it after preseason and saying that was always the plan for his development is easier to manage.

Also as I mentioned we have about 20 senior players who will be expecting to be in the match day squads, the transfer window remains open for a few weeks after the season starts. If you put Rio on the bench ahead of Chiesa or bring him off the bench ahead of Chiesa for example you might make Chiesa think about his future, if you want to nudge him towards the exit then you might play Rio, if you want him to stay you might give him those minutes...

[Corndog]

I can see both sides to be honest, it depends on the manager and squad and his plans and thoughts etc. I think in the past we have probably tended to give the approach of not letting players get carried away put them in the squad too early then taking them out is a big blow, doing it after preseason and saying that was always the plan for his development is easier to manage.

Also as I mentioned we have about 20 senior players who will be expecting to be in the match day squads, the transfer window remains open for a few weeks after the season starts. If you put Rio on the bench ahead of Chiesa or bring him off the bench ahead of Chiesa for example you might make Chiesa think about his future, if you want to nudge him towards the exit then you might play Rio, if you want him to stay you might give him those minutes...

Perhaps a controversial opinion but I’d rather keep Doak instead of Chiesa.

Both could be sold and Doak would command a bigger fee but Chiesa is a spent force and too injury prone. Doak has also been disrupted by injuries but he’s still so young he can hopefully recover and not have them affect him long term.

Rio does seem very exciting, probably even more so than Sterling at the same age but development isn’t linear. It will be more interesting to compare how they stack up at 19 when Sterling was an outstanding senior pro.

[Doc_Piptorious]

No pressure but if he can score a competitive goal for the first team by the 12 October, he becomes the youngest goalscorer in our history.

[RedReet]

Had a look out of curiosity. Sterling and Owen were both less than 6 months older than Rio will be at start of season when they made their debuts. They both broke through in May, meaning they had a full preseason to develop further, before establishing themselves the next year.

So you could look at it that maybe this season has come a bit too soon for Rio compared to them, or you could look at it that he is ahead in his development, made his debut younger and has already had his full pre season. He also isn't as lightweight as they were, which works in his favour.

[RedReet]

No pressure but if he can score a competitive goal for the first team by the 12 October, he becomes the youngest goalscorer in our history.

Does Charity Shield count?

I really fancy him to score in that.

[Exiled_red]

Perhaps a controversial opinion but I’d rather keep Doak instead of Chiesa.

Both could be sold and Doak would command a bigger fee but Chiesa is a spent force and too injury prone. Doak has also been disrupted by injuries but he’s still so young he can hopefully recover and not have them affect him long term.

Rio does seem very exciting, probably even more so than Sterling at the same age but development isn’t linear. It will be more interesting to compare how they stack up at 19 when Sterling was an outstanding senior pro.

I think Doak is more of a winger and Chiesa is someone who can cover more positions. Chiesa (when fit) is something of a known quantity Doak is still very much unknown and is untested at the top level (Chiesa has played elsewhere at the top level).

It would have been interesting to see where Doak was at had he not got injured last season as by all accounts he was doing well at Middlesborough I think he had about 10 G/A in ~25 games which was a decent level of production for an 18/19 year old. As I think he could have been viewed as something of a prospect, whereas at the moment he's almost something of a forgotten man. Rio is the new prospect in town. Alot of people have been talking about Doak being sold but I think that another loan move is probably the smart thing for him if we want him to develop and/or maximise his value.

My feeling is that we would probably end up loaning Doak and keeping Chiesa for another year, not necessarily for reasons of quality but more for experience and potentially financial reasons. I think Chiesa would be difficult to sell and we may end up subsidising his wages (and we are likely going to be dealing with Italian clubs) I don't think Chiesa's value drops if we sell him in a year, if he plays there is the potential for it to increase.

[Exiled_red]

No pressure but if he can score a competitive goal for the first team by the 12 October, he becomes the youngest goalscorer in our history.

Taking away Ben Woodburn's record

Also Carabao cup 3rd round is mid-late September, you would imagine he has a good chance of starting that game even if he isn't involved before...

[Doc_Piptorious]

Does Charity Shield count?

I really fancy him to score in that.

Nope, scoring in that does not count as a competitive goal.

[RedReet]

Boooooo.

He'll have to save it for Bournemouth then.

[RedReet]

Taking away Ben Woodburn's record

Also Carabao cup 3rd round is mid-late September, you would imagine he has a good chance of starting that game even if he isn't involved before...

Forgot Woodburn even existed. When I trying to remember my opinion on past 'wonderkids' I was thinking Doak, Sterling, Ibe, Wilson, Morgan, Suso, Pacheco, Ngoo, Insua. Woodburn didn't even cross my mind.

[Exiled_red]

Forgot Woodburn even existed. When I trying to remember my opinion on past 'wonderkids' I was thinking Doak, Sterling, Ibe, Wilson, Morgan, Suso, Pacheco, Ngoo, Insua. Woodburn didn't even cross my mind.

To be fair he only played a handful of games.

[BigChief]

Forgot Woodburn even existed. When I trying to remember my opinion on past 'wonderkids' I was thinking Doak, Sterling, Ibe, Wilson, Morgan, Suso, Pacheco, Ngoo, Insua. Woodburn didn't even cross my mind.

There's no one I had more hope for than Nemeth.

[RedReet]

There's no one I had more hope for than Nemeth.

Ha, Nemeth popped into my head when I wasn't out walking the dog shortly after.

Think Suso was my big 'all in', nothing would convince me he wasn't going win Ballon D'or. I'm sure I said he had Messi's dribbling ability and Alonso's passing range. TBF, he did when he was playing against kids.